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Drones Online

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Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#241 - 2013-12-26 05:57:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Leigh Akiga
I just wanna give a historical context to this discussion of the Roflstompmobiles for new players and bittervets alike.

This is a quote from a post made in 2008 by James 315:

"People have been voicing concern about titan proliferation and pointing out that in about a year, there will be so many titans that even capital fleets will be popped instantly by a succession of doomsdays. Eve Online will be Titan Online, just as it was before they fixed (deleted) the remote doomsdays. People are worried that the game will be completely ruined. They wonder what CCP's solution will be."

And this is the second comment in response:

"ITT: cryalition crying because they couldn't beat BoB"

This prophecy was fulfilled here when a dreadnought fleet was wiped out by a succession of doomsdays
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#242 - 2013-12-26 06:20:24 UTC
Clearly if the CFC says something's overpowered, it's actually perfectly balanced and doesn't need any nerfs at all.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#243 - 2013-12-26 06:29:46 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Clearly if the CFC says something's overpowered, it's actually perfectly balanced and doesn't need any nerfs at all.


The names and faces may change but supercapital proliferation stays the same Smile

Yes, this has been a problem for more than 5 years Sad
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#244 - 2013-12-26 06:31:02 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:

without timers you would simply shift the control from defender towards the attacker. why do you think this would diminish blobbing?

Are you seriously asking this question or is that a joke?

Try to remember back to your school days when there was a) a spontaneous punch up in the cafeteria and b) a Meet You At The [insert convenient beating up place] after school.

Obviously any X time and X Place setup is going to get lots more blobbier than a spontaneous fight ffs. Its not rocket science...


well ok it would maybe reduce blobbing at some given time but overall you nerf defenders in favor of attackers, which could distribute sov grind work amongst bigger blob which is still an uncontested advantage of having more people, while burning down regions of sov could all happen in attackers timezone, a model CCP moved away from explicitely by introducing timers defender would basically set to their own tz to be able to defend themselves at all without having all timezone coverage (which itself is another driver for blobs).



Working in this angle, I always found that the "see you in the playground after school" routine never worked out for me because of blobbing (this was back in the days when you can get in a fight at school and not end up in jail). Therefore the best thing to do was deck the challenger flat out before he even finished uttering his "challenge".

Now, it would have really sucked if, on doing that and having done a given number of damage, he became un-touchable until a given and known time for his friends to show up.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#245 - 2013-12-26 06:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: penifSMASH
The truth of the matter is that CFC+RUS *can* beat our Slowcat fleet but they can't do it without putting their own dreads and supercapitals on the field. If they do that, they WILL win the fight but not before losing a significant number of capitals and supercapitals in the process. However, they are not willing to risk their capital fleets while N3+PL does so in every single fight. If you want our space that badly, you're going to have to earn it in blood and sweat.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#246 - 2013-12-26 06:54:49 UTC
I hear a lot about this "cfc not willing to drop dreads". Is that not exactly what we're gearing up to do? Naglfars take time to train and build, you know.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#247 - 2013-12-26 07:02:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Leigh Akiga
penifSMASH wrote:
The truth of the matter is that CFC+RUS *can* beat our Slowcat fleet but they can't do it without putting their own dreads and supercapitals on the field. If they do that, they WILL win the fight but not before losing a significant number of capitals and supercapitals in the process. However, they are not willing to risk their capital fleets while N3+PL does so in every single fight. If you want our space that badly, you're going to have to earn it in blood and sweat.


But is this really a battle about space? As far as I know, there is only one alliance interested in taking space in the current conflict. The one who was displaced.

Is this not a battle of ideologies and ideas? Whoever has the most dudes wins? Or whoever has the most supers wins? One side claims the moral high ground over the other while doing the exact same thing X

I would think the goal and the common ground between all involved would be to pressure CCP to revamp the system away from the ONE BIG TIMER.
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#248 - 2013-12-26 07:19:26 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I hear a lot about this "cfc not willing to drop dreads". Is that not exactly what we're gearing up to do? Naglfars take time to train and build, you know.


The last time you fielded dreads, you fielded 350, lost 30 to Doomsdays, got saved by a node crash, and haven't brought them out since even after tackling solo titans on your home system's undock.
Zulu Death Mask
Yaxchilan
#249 - 2013-12-26 08:20:28 UTC
penifSMASH wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I hear a lot about this "cfc not willing to drop dreads". Is that not exactly what we're gearing up to do? Naglfars take time to train and build, you know.


The last time you fielded dreads, you fielded 350, lost 30 to Doomsdays, got saved by a node crash, and haven't brought them out since even after tackling solo titans on your home system's undock.


By 350 you mean 250.

And you want CFC/RUS to escalate when you already have 250 slowcats on field right? Because it sounds like an amazing idea.

Also... ever heard of node crashes?
But yeah keep on telling us what an amazing solution cap/scap escalations are to slowcat infestations.
Zulu Death Mask
Yaxchilan
#250 - 2013-12-26 08:21:48 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
penifSMASH wrote:
The truth of the matter is that CFC+RUS *can* beat our Slowcat fleet but they can't do it without putting their own dreads and supercapitals on the field. If they do that, they WILL win the fight but not before losing a significant number of capitals and supercapitals in the process. However, they are not willing to risk their capital fleets while N3+PL does so in every single fight. If you want our space that badly, you're going to have to earn it in blood and sweat.


But is this really a battle about space? As far as I know, there is only one alliance interested in taking space in the current conflict. The one who was displaced.

Is this not a battle of ideologies and ideas? Whoever has the most dudes wins? Or whoever has the most supers wins? One side claims the moral high ground over the other while doing the exact same thing X

I would think the goal and the common ground between all involved would be to pressure CCP to revamp the system away from the ONE BIG TIMER.


This is my MVP post of the thread.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2013-12-26 08:21:53 UTC
You can't really smug about killing our dreads when we haven't yet fielded the proper composition.
You could smug about us not being ready, but such is the nature of a coalition which until now has been doing just fine with its subcap superiority.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#252 - 2013-12-26 09:13:37 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
I just wanna give a historical context to this discussion of the Roflstompmobiles for new players and bittervets alike.

This is a quote from a post made in 2008 by James 315:

"People have been voicing concern about titan proliferation and pointing out that in about a year, there will be so many titans that even capital fleets will be popped instantly by a succession of doomsdays. Eve Online will be Titan Online, just as it was before they fixed (deleted) the remote doomsdays. People are worried that the game will be completely ruined. They wonder what CCP's solution will be."

And this is the second comment in response:

"ITT: cryalition crying because they couldn't beat BoB"

This prophecy was fulfilled here when a dreadnought fleet was wiped out by a succession of doomsdays



You realize they were worried with something way worse? That they would have enough titans so that AOE doomsdays could kil a dread. MEanignthat number of titans alone coudl wipe 1 THOUSAND dreads!!! And no one ever again would be able to fight against that?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#253 - 2013-12-26 11:13:27 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You can't really smug about killing our dreads when we haven't yet fielded the proper composition.
You could smug about us not being ready, but such is the nature of a coalition which until now has been doing just fine with its subcap superiority.


Yea, how dare we smug about you having 100 more dreads than we had carriers and still bitching out and not coming back for days on end.

The absolute nerve.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2013-12-26 11:16:21 UTC
Yes, much better to log into system one-by-one in random spots where they got placed after the node crash.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#255 - 2013-12-26 11:49:20 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
I just wanna give a historical context to this discussion of the Roflstompmobiles for new players and bittervets alike.

This is a quote from a post made in 2008 by James 315:

"People have been voicing concern about titan proliferation and pointing out that in about a year, there will be so many titans that even capital fleets will be popped instantly by a succession of doomsdays. Eve Online will be Titan Online, just as it was before they fixed (deleted) the remote doomsdays. People are worried that the game will be completely ruined. They wonder what CCP's solution will be."

And this is the second comment in response:

"ITT: cryalition crying because they couldn't beat BoB"

This prophecy was fulfilled here when a dreadnought fleet was wiped out by a succession of doomsdays

Heh heh...

op success

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#256 - 2013-12-26 11:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Better than wanting the game to revolve around super ultra elite awesome ships that kill everything.


they have nothing elite at them, they just mean some amount of skill and investment, a meaningful progress within this game, which luckily doesnt stop at battlecruisers and are accessible for everyone on the one way or another.

Leigh Akiga wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:


you mean the game should revolve around sheer numbers of bodies again?


Yes thats actually exactly what they want.


EVE Online should be pay to win. Whoever puts the most isk on the field wins.


oh I understand, ignoring the fact that half of game is concentrated at industry, markets and making ISK, ISK shouldnt mean anything, right? Just huge number of members you can equip with a rifter.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#257 - 2013-12-26 12:02:32 UTC
Heh, he still thinks we only fly battlecruisers and Rifters.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#258 - 2013-12-26 12:40:08 UTC
Let's face it.

Carriers need to be rebalanced anyway, and so do dreads, supers, and titans.
When pretty much every alliance (except TEST because they're special) tells their members to train Archons to the exclusion of all other carriers, that's a pretty surefire sign of an imbalance.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#259 - 2013-12-26 12:49:11 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Let's face it.

Carriers need to be rebalanced anyway, and so do dreads, supers, and titans.
When pretty much every alliance (except TEST because they're special) tells their members to train Archons to the exclusion of all other carriers, that's a pretty surefire sign of an imbalance.


your boss told you all to train naglfars to the exclusion of all other dreads, so do this and be quet until further orders.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#260 - 2013-12-26 12:57:36 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Let's face it.

Carriers need to be rebalanced anyway, and so do dreads, supers, and titans.
When pretty much every alliance (except TEST because they're special) tells their members to train Archons to the exclusion of all other carriers, that's a pretty surefire sign of an imbalance.


your boss told you all to train naglfars to the exclusion of all other dreads, so do this and be quet until further orders.

Because it's the most realistic of our options? It makes sense. It doesn't mean the Nag is overpowered, it means it's the only dread that really counters slowcat fleets.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)