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new ganking ship comes to town

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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#61 - 2011-11-23 01:11:31 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
PVP = player vs player.


And as it doesn't matter if the one side actual has a pilot at all (target) ... you can simply place a empty ship instead .... and with this it is NO PvP anymore.

IF you want to compare it with other activitys, then the one thing which comes closest is ..... Mining
Active tools against not defending and not moving target


Oh, I don't know about that. I've had Hulks send Hobgoblin I's at me before. Funny when they attack you like that, even though the Hulk was dead in the first volley. Kind of like a corpse attacking you with its last death spasms. Even cancelled his killrights and saved me a sec status penalty. Sweet.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#62 - 2011-11-23 01:11:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Majora Veneris wrote:
Cant believe im responding...again...but PVP is player vs player. says nothing about if each player wants the combat, nothing about fairness, ect. just PLAYER VS PLAYER. i think ganking qualifies as that.


Can't belive I had to explain it the 3 time.

Player vs Player REQUIRE that all involved partys (ganker AND victim) can do something at all.
As soon, as it is equal, if one side is a player or not, it is NO Player vs Player anymore.

And as it is equal, if the target has a pilot or just an emtpy ship -> NO PvP

Simple fact.


PS: or just a MEGA FAIL balance ... the nifty thing YOU (PvP comunity) claim and cry for all day long at this forum!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Handsome Hussein
#63 - 2011-11-23 01:13:39 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Handsome ******* wrote:
LACK OF LANGUAGE SKILLS!

Just jung children and people without arguments try to TROLL about other peoples english.

BAD attampt. Get some arguments or shut up child.

"Jung children"? I'm betting you're a troll. 3/10 for seriousness.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
Handsome Hussein
#64 - 2011-11-23 01:16:13 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Player vs Player REQUIRE that all involved partys (ganker AND victim) can do something at all.
As soon, as it is equal, if one side is a player or not, it is NO Player vs Player anymore.

Confirming that AFK miners aren't actually players.

I guess that makes ganking PvE, then?

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#65 - 2011-11-23 01:18:15 UTC
Handsome Hussein wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Handsome ******* wrote:
LACK OF LANGUAGE SKILLS!

Just jung children and people without arguments try to TROLL about other peoples english.

BAD attampt. Get some arguments or shut up child.

"Jung children"? I'm betting you're a troll. 3/10 for seriousness.

0/10

Even trolls like you should know, that most posters don't have english as first (any many times not even as second) language.

So either you are very young, very intolerant, very ignorant, very s.... not so clever *g* .... OR (which I belive) you just have no arguments and try hardcore to troll me.

well, fail attamp for trolling

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Handsome Hussein
#66 - 2011-11-23 01:20:13 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Even trolls like you should know, that most posters don't have english as first (any many times not even as second) language.

So either you are very young, very intolerant, very ignorant, very s.... not so clever *g* .... OR (which I belive) you just have no arguments and try hardcore to troll me.

well, fail attamp for trolling

You make me laugh, I'll give you a +1.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
missbob
The Sword of Damocles
#67 - 2011-11-23 01:27:51 UTC
english is not my 1st language. bad english is thats y i do not post a lot
and when you got player and all you do is troll you can see y
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#68 - 2011-11-23 01:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Desert Ice78
Jita Alt666 wrote:


PVP = player vs player.
PVP=/= honourable fair player vs honourable fair player

While you can argue that players who seek to capitalise on an unbalanced mechanic are weak, you can not dispute the fact the ganking is a player vs player activity.


Completely wrong. Arguing that ganking is PvP is what gankers use to comfort themselves. The premise of ganking is designed to preciesly NOT be pvp as it is exactly what the gankers are seaking to avoid.

Its pathetic because if any ganker even smells pvp they start running, and don't stop until they hit the docking point.

Edit: Just to qualify my post, I have flown with gankers, and I've listened to them on coms as they are "conducting their operations." I know when they are getting out of it, and I know how they think.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Jita Alt666
#69 - 2011-11-23 01:52:45 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Majora Veneris wrote:
Cant believe im responding...again...but PVP is player vs player. says nothing about if each player wants the combat, nothing about fairness, ect. just PLAYER VS PLAYER. i think ganking qualifies as that.


Can't belive I had to explain it the 3 time.

Player vs Player REQUIRE that all involved partys (ganker AND victim) can do something at all.
As soon, as it is equal, if one side is a player or not, it is NO Player vs Player anymore.

And as it is equal, if the target has a pilot or just an emtpy ship -> NO PvP

Simple fact.


PS: or just a MEGA FAIL balance ... the nifty thing YOU (PvP comunity) claim and cry for all day long at this forum!



You are wrong.
Player VS player requires nothing more than a character owned by a player attacks another character owned by another player. What skill level either player has, what actions either player does, what means to attack either player has, what means to defend either player has... ...all irrelevant. When a player activates an aggression module against another player PVP has occured.

You can try and explain it again if you like - it won't make you right.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2011-11-23 01:55:39 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Majora Veneris wrote:
Cant believe im responding...again...but PVP is player vs player. says nothing about if each player wants the combat, nothing about fairness, ect. just PLAYER VS PLAYER. i think ganking qualifies as that.


Can't belive I had to explain it the 3 time.

Player vs Player REQUIRE that all involved partys (ganker AND victim) can do something at all.
As soon, as it is equal, if one side is a player or not, it is NO Player vs Player anymore.

And as it is equal, if the target has a pilot or just an emtpy ship -> NO PvP

Simple fact.


PS: or just a MEGA FAIL balance ... the nifty thing YOU (PvP comunity) claim and cry for all day long at this forum!



You are wrong.
Player VS player requires nothing more than a character owned by a player attacks another character owned by another player. What skill level either player has, what actions either player does, what means to attack either player has, what means to defend either player has... ...all irrelevant. When a player activates an aggression module against another player PVP has occured.

You can try and explain it again if you like - it won't make you right.


no you see when you activate a module on an unwilling player he is instantly transmuted into a server-controlled robot

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Jita Alt666
#71 - 2011-11-23 01:57:09 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:


PVP = player vs player.
PVP=/= honourable fair player vs honourable fair player

While you can argue that players who seek to capitalise on an unbalanced mechanic are weak, you can not dispute the fact the ganking is a player vs player activity.


Completely wrong. Arguing that ganking is PvP is what gankers use to comfort themselves. The premise of ganking is designed to preciesly NOT be pvp as it is exactly what the gankers are seaking to avoid.

Its pathetic because if any ganker even smells pvp they start running, and don't stop until they hit the docking point.

Edit: Just to qualify my post, I have flown with gankers, and I've listened to them on coms as they are "conducting their operations." I know when they are getting out of it, and I know how they think.


I agree gankers seek to avoid fair fights. Their actions are still against other players. Therefore it is player VS player (where the defender has no chance), it is still player versus player. You agree with me but refuse to see the crux.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#72 - 2011-11-23 02:04:03 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:


I agree gankers seek to avoid fair fights. Their actions are still against other players. Therefore it is player VS player (where the defender has no chance), it is still player versus player. You agree with me but refuse to see the crux.


No. A gank is not a fight. There is no fight. There is only gank.

Hence the name.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#73 - 2011-11-23 03:37:27 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:


I agree gankers seek to avoid fair fights. Their actions are still against other players. Therefore it is player VS player (where the defender has no chance), it is still player versus player. You agree with me but refuse to see the crux.


No. A gank is not a fight. There is no fight. There is only gank.

Hence the name.

A fight is an altercation between two individuals. Doesn't mean they both engage in aggression.

And ganking is PvP. A player is shooting at a player. The only exception to this is when ganking a bot.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2011-11-23 03:39:04 UTC
stop with semantics, why bother to try push for your own explanation when you perfectly know the one used.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#75 - 2011-11-23 04:23:08 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:

A fight is an altercation between two individuals. Doesn't mean they both engage in aggression.


Yes it does, or else its not called a fight, its called a beating, or in Eve terms, ganking.

Corina Jarr wrote:


And ganking is PvP. A player is shooting at a player.


And that is why this is wrong. Sure is what a whole swade of people THINK passes for pvp, but isn't that why its so pathetic.

PvP is a fight.

Gank is a gank.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2011-11-23 04:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Krios Ahzek wrote:


no you see when you activate a module on an unwilling player he is instantly transmuted into a script


I changed something in your statement just to allow me to point one thing out.

We all acting on scripts, which has been created/learned. Except fear / which is actual biological script we are born with.

At least thats my theory on living creatures, specifically human-kind.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#77 - 2011-11-23 04:59:28 UTC
*yawn*

Yet another "we have new, big epeens now" thread.

CCP are successfully converting a sandbox into a garbage can.

Only Hobo's truly love the garbage can.


COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2011-11-23 04:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Tippia wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
You can't warp off everytime another ship enters the belt, other people do actually be in belts for purposes other then mining. And if you had any clue about mining, you would know that it takes a hulk in excess of 20 seconds to align and warp off anyways. And as for the notion of remaining aligned a 3/4 speed?!?!?!? Why do wanna-be (carebear) pvper's always come up with the most ******** ideas??


Because if it's stupid but works, it's not stupid.

…and it works.


Well if you read past that, you will find out that this idea, works for the moment but is really stupid. It actually makes "suicide-gankers" a lot happier since they can abuse "miners" without sec. status hit and suicide to CONCORD.

Since some of them are in that business just to abuse, it makes things much easier for them.

So removing problem, by making those people have their fun without any drawbacks for them and with major drawback to the "Abused" party is not really clever is it?
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#79 - 2011-11-23 05:32:46 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
I don't get what you are saying. Shouldn't you be claiming 0.0 is to hard for them cause they are whining men?


Anyway, there are plenty of ways to counter ganking. If a person chooses to have it easy, the gankers have it easy too.


Oh, btw a speed fit Retriever can speed tank the Talos. Not good for mining, but funny.


Well loss of retriever isnt really such an down,

And no you cant counter ganking except staying docked all the time. Or just be alligned at 3/4 max speed all the time and hit warp every time you see something coming on grid, which will result more fun for "gankers" without sec. hit and destroyed ship. Just warping among the roids watching everyone warps off.. Smile

Chances that you get ganked however are 1:5000 if we take number of people engaged in suicide ganking vs "high sec dwellers"


Yes, or unsub. Like most of the miners I know lol

Because loss of subs makes CCP rethink what they do.

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#80 - 2011-11-23 05:45:33 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Oh, I don't know about that. I've had Hulks send Hobgoblin I's at me before. Funny when they attack you like that, even though the Hulk was dead in the first volley. Kind of like a corpse attacking you with its last death spasms. Even cancelled his killrights and saved me a sec status penalty. Sweet.


If you're ganking, why on earth are you concerned about your security status ?

You don't outright say that you're concerned about it, but mentioning that is saved you a sec status penalty indicates some concern.
Saves you the time you need to get your sec status back up ? That's the only logical conclusion I can come to.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance