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[ISHTI] Declaration of War

Author
Rin Valador
Professional Amateurs
#141 - 2013-12-24 02:42:52 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Rin Valador wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:


Basically that we agree to disagree regarding Odelya's slanderous insults to the Empress, Theology Council, and Empire.

This was rejected for two reasons:

First, PIE will *never* agree to disagree on the topics at hand. Slander against the Empress and Empire must be met with resistance.

Second, PIE will never reward a slanderous fool for attempting to use violence to legitimize slander against the Empire.
so she is just throwing a tantrum now because she can't spew nonsense uncontested on a public platform?


Spot on!

Sounds like an excessive waste of corporate assets..... I wish I could afford to wardec other corporations at a whim.


She didn't. She hired someone else to do the war part. At least I am assuming she isn't flying into the war declaration zone and personally attacking PIE. I haven't heard anything of the sort, at least.

I think that would have been bigger news.


She attacked me the other day after I said she could share a plex with me. I had no intent on harming her.

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#142 - 2013-12-24 02:56:30 UTC
These sorts of public rows by supposed Kingdom loyalists against Imperial loyalists were politically much easier to conduct before Khanid II started supping at the same table as Jamyl. When there was a cold war, when the Imperial Throne sat empty all those years, or filled by Emperors weaker than Jamyl.

Khanid II has survived on his own throne for more than 500 years, facing all manner of assassins, civil war, Imperial attacks, and worse. He did not survive this long by letting anyone who serves him work against his interests in public. Khanid II has a particularly short political leash over his subjects, and Holders not singing the proper tune in public can find themselves in decidedly unpleasant situations with a quickness. He doesn't keep the families of his most important Holders as 'guests' in the Royal Palace for no reason.

Odeyla might consider if her public actions are supporting Khanid's current example of Imperial Embracement, or hindering.

I say this because as loyalists we all eventually come to a decision point where we either accept things the way they are despite our desires and support those who have our loyalty without question, or choose to walk our own path.

Khanid II's decision and disposition have been obvious for some time. Khanid and Imperial loyalists would seem to have a pretty clear, if misguided, path ahead of them.

That path would seem to be 'get with the program, don't make waves.'






Sabik now, Sabik forever

Zelarrs Elkoth
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#143 - 2013-12-24 03:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zelarrs Elkoth
Rin Valador wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:

She didn't. She hired someone else to do the war part. At least I am assuming she isn't flying into the war declaration zone and personally attacking PIE. I haven't heard anything of the sort, at least.

I think that would have been bigger news.


She attacked me the other day after I said she could share a plex with me. I had no intent on harming her.


We were not making a huge deal of it, as It is potentially a diplomatic issue with her corp and alliance, who are valued allies.

We've not made Odelya a target in spite all of this. She knew that as confirmed by our conversations.

But yes the "no difference anymore between the schismatics of PIE and the Tribal Liberation Force" was her ex post facto justification for her awox. At first she left it in the hands of the mercs. But after the discussions broke off and we rejected the proposal, she apparently changed her policy.

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Captain, Head of Diplomacy, Recruiting Officer Contact on channel: "PIE Public" "I walk the razor's edge of embracing the future while protecting what we value of the past."

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#144 - 2013-12-24 05:34:37 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:

Sounds like an excessive waste of corporate assets..... I wish I could afford to wardec other corporations at a whim.


She didn't. She hired someone else to do the war part. At least I am assuming she isn't flying into the war declaration zone and personally attacking PIE. I haven't heard anything of the sort, at least.

I think that would have been bigger news.

Still, it would be nice to be able to afford to do that. Just go and say " Darn PIE sitting on my windowsill again. Here's a billion, crows, go eat them for me." *sigh*


As you can see, the manner in which the resources of any piece of territory in Amarrian space are best utilized is often left at the sole discretion of the Holder. She feels that money is best allocated to annoying PIE.
Any money spent thats not mine is money well spent, I suppose.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Morijah d'Hanguest
Ishtirak d'Hanguest
#145 - 2013-12-24 11:47:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Morijah d'Hanguest
In the Name of the Lord


To Whom it May Concern,

five points for clarification and elucidation:

Zelarrs Elkoth wrote:
Actually she initially wanted us to affirm* the claim, but quickly accepted that PIE was not an entity that had the right to affirm or deny such a thing. [...]

PPS - * Odelya has vehemently objected to my characterization that she asked for her title to be affirmed. I've reviewed the transcript, and although her statement did strike me at the time as asking exactly that, and the exchange about whether or not PIE could affirm or deny the title did occur, her initial statement could just as easily be interpreted as requesting we address her with the proper titles and honorifics as she now maintains. In the interest of accuracy, I stipulate that I may have mistaken her intent.

1.) After Her Grace stated that a future declaration should be done “with reference to” her Khanid titles (while honorific titles might be omitted), Mr Elkoth apologised for questioning Her Grace’s titles in the past. He then raised the issue of affirmation by saying: “I don't believe it is my, or PIE's place to either deny or confirm a holder's title, Amarrian or Khanid.” Upon which Her Grace answered: “Indeed, it is not.” One now wonders how he could come to the interpretation that our party demanded an affirmation of Her Grace's titles.

Zelarrs Elkoth wrote:
PS - As a note: I would normally not disclose the terms of negotiations, but in this case the opposing party was making an issue of it.

2.) Mr Elkoth gave his assurance to keep silent on what he and Her Grace talked about. He broke this promise. Why would we not make an issue of that? He later added as a justification: “I considered holding that back, but it seemed right to get it all out there since you brought it up and Gaven had disclosed part of it.” We condemn this and hope it will serve as a warning to others. A promise is a promise regardless of the circumstances.

[One might add that Mr Elkoth is certainly not qualified for his role as a diplomat. Not only is he inept to understand the nuances of written or spoken language, he also does not seem to enjoy the full support of his admiralty and seems to be out of touch with it. He simply put the failure of the negotiations into the words: “Seems I somewhat misjudged the mood of my admiralty.” And while we believe it is a “mood” indeed, unfortunately it is also a structure. We don’t blame Mr Elkoth for being a treaty breaker for he is the product of his corrupted environment.]

Zelarrs Elkoth wrote:
But yes the "no difference anymore between the schismatics of PIE and the Tribal Liberation Force" was her ex post facto justification for her awox. At first she left it in the hands of the mercs. But after the discussions broke off and we rejected the proposal, she apparently changed her policy.

3a.) As we have stated in the declaration of war it was “judged requisite by Her Grace The Duchess, [that] all commanders of the Ducal Palasian Squadron [DPS], its attached mercenary forces, and all captains of civilian vessels are authorised and instructed to subdue, seize and take any armed vessel of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris which shall be found within the jurisdictional limits of the Duchy of Palas, or elsewhere.” There has been no change of policy ever since.

Rin Valador wrote:
She attacked me the other day after I said she could share a plex with me. I had no intent on harming her.

3b.) Ms Valador is clearly lying. No such invitation has been conveyed to Her Grace and even if, it would have been completely irrelevant, because cf. 3a.). We find it however disturbing how often PIE pilots are distorting the truth (and using obscene language) in this conflict—especially after all they tend to repeat that it is completely marginal to them.

Zelarrs Elkoth wrote:
We were not making a huge deal of it, as It is potentially a diplomatic issue with her corp and alliance, who are valued allies. [...]

4.) In the same light PIE clearly knows that should 24FL, which has destroyed almost ten times more in hostile assets compared to PIE in this month, get involved in this conflict they would be annihilated. Even now their neurotic pilots are sitting stressed in stations. We find the strategy likely that they want to put pressure on 24FL's leadership to make Her Grace stop, because they obviously lack the skill to do so themselves.

5.) Since the financial situation of Her Grace has been raised as an issue a few times now, we can assure you that Her Grace is only spending a small amount of her private capital and no ducal revenues have been used for this conflict so far. It is the pleasure of Her Grace to entertain a private mercenary force.

Yours sincerely,
Morijah d’Hanguest
Ducal Chancellor
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#146 - 2013-12-24 12:39:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:
It is the pleasure of Her Grace to entertain a private mercenary force.


Movie screenings for the troops?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#147 - 2013-12-24 12:57:52 UTC
Odelya d'Hanguest is a heretic, and King Khanid II is a rude king.

There is considerable evidence to support both of those statements.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#148 - 2013-12-24 14:31:25 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Hi Christine! They (crows) seem active between 20:00 and 23:00. So far it seems limited to Amarr though with a few losec stints.

How's Auga since you all took it back?


Thanks for the info Anslo, Auga is great. Very much enjoying my stay on this deployment. I do hope to keep it for a little while if only to have a little rest from all the base hopping but we do what we must right?

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I'm certain the Crows will treat anyone fleeted, or part of the Amarr Militia, as hostile, in any case.


Indeed, I'd think nothing less from mercs that are trying to do the job well.

Katrina Oniseki wrote:


The Crows are not enemies of the Amarr Militia. They were hired against PIE, not the 24th Imperial Crusade.


Really? I'd argue anyone disrupting our work in the warzone immediately becomes a target no matter how it's looked at. I'm also pretty simple when it comes down to it, I'm not into politics, it's why I don't communicate here much so the way I see it people shooting at my friends become targets.

My apologies for coming late to this reply, I may be disrupting more up to date conversations.



Zelarrs Elkoth
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#149 - 2013-12-24 15:05:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zelarrs Elkoth
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:
In the Name of the Lord


To Whom it May Concern,

five points for clarification and elucidation:

...


Bravo.

Quite the performance.

Nothing like twisting diplomatic language to suit your narrative.

I'd reply with similar hair splitting clarifications but honestly, its boring and tedious. I suspect the "to whom it may concern" is dwindling rapidly. I am not sure I even care anymore.

And you are very much not going to bait me into making any statements against our long standing allies in 24FL. I know you'd love that. Your sister has tried before to foment antipathy between these stalwart militia organizations. Our mutual service to the Empress is what is paramount.

Anyway, have fun with your little war.

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Captain, Head of Diplomacy, Recruiting Officer Contact on channel: "PIE Public" "I walk the razor's edge of embracing the future while protecting what we value of the past."

Rin Valador
Professional Amateurs
#150 - 2013-12-24 22:58:20 UTC
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:
In the Name of the Lord


To Whom it May Concern,




It seems to me that you and your sister are beyond hope then. I tried, in my own simple way, to make peace and show were my, and PIE's interests lie. On the front lines against the liberation force, protecting the Empire, which includes the khanid areas.


I think this will be the last time I check in here. I have more important matters to attend to.

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#151 - 2013-12-24 23:15:46 UTC
Since when the Khanid area is included in that proxy war ?
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#152 - 2013-12-24 23:43:38 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Since when the Khanid area is included in that proxy war ?


Firstly Khanid holds a seat on the Privy Council, and is therefore involved in the prosecution of the war

Secondly where do you think the Shakorite regime occupying Pator will turn its attentions to next should the Empire fail? Do you think those Minmatar slaves in the Kingdom are somehow not in the plans of the Shakorites?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Erin Savonarola
Doomheim
#153 - 2013-12-25 00:02:31 UTC
Duchess d’Hanguest,
In the name of the Lord, shut up.

Since you have accused me, quite unfairly and incorrectly, of disclosing private conversations, I will conduct further affairs with you and your office openly and notoriously.

PIE’s bullheaded behaviour notwithstanding (and you may believe that I have choice words for them as well), you are acting like the child you are, rather than rising to the occasion and the title you have inherited. This is nothing more than a tantrum, magnified many times through the lens of your station and your status as a capsuleer. One can almost imagine you in an office, built through the efforts of better persons, jumping up and down shouting at all who will listen, most likely servants or sycophants, that PIE is being mean to you, that PIE is not calling you duchess, that PIE is not calling you by the style you wish, that you are the duchess, etcetera and so on.
I stated before that a holder who has to demand respect is no holder. Take note of this, Lady d’Hanguest. Every time you pitch a fit over a slight, the esteem and respect that your peers and lessers have for you is diminished. Although you may not understand it now, the latter is actually the most important.
Since there is no one to guide you in your inexperienced youth, I will offer some advice. Firstly, do not make waves. I didn’t even redecorate my manor in the first decade, despite the horrible mauve carpets that my grandmother put in the living section. You have held your title for two years. Two years. In that time you’ve had your title challenged and start an internecine war. In addition, you are still overcoming your past reputation for sexual lasciviousness and otherwise hedonistic behaviour of your teens. You should shut up, solidify your position and gain the respect of your peers and lessers.
The second bit has to do with titles, styles, honorifics, kowtowing, scraping, bowing and bootlicking. Get over yourself. I have a much older title than you, Lady d’Hanguest, with an irregular style. I have a policy to introduce myself once and then gently remind once more, if needed and then I drop it after. I do this because I am secure in my position and secure in myself. Also, quite frankly, it is beneath me to make an issue of it. Let me reiterate that, Odelya. If a commoner breaks social protocol, I do not lower myself to call them on it, even if it is a deliberate slight. Additionally, I make a point to have close friends and acquaintances drop the formality and simply call me Erin when appropriate. Part of being a holder is knowing when formality is not called for.
The last piece of advice I would give is that you need to learn to think long term. Two factors work against you in this case, your age and the Kingdom itself. You came into your title at an unheard of early age. Nominally speaking, you would have a few centuries ahead of you. With the help of capsuleer technology, that is even more true and may even be stretched longer. Yet, you are still thinking now, now, now. Most of my plans have a time table of a decade or more. Your impetuousness marks you as weak.

Kind regards,
Erin
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#154 - 2013-12-25 01:36:19 UTC
I would say that is a "burn", but I think they still punish by immolation in parts of the Empire and Kingdom... so perhaps that is not an appropriate term.

Katrina Oniseki

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#155 - 2013-12-25 10:50:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Rodj Blake wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Since when the Khanid area is included in that proxy war ?


Firstly Khanid holds a seat on the Privy Council, and is therefore involved in the prosecution of the war

Secondly where do you think the Shakorite regime occupying Pator will turn its attentions to next should the Empire fail? Do you think those Minmatar slaves in the Kingdom are somehow not in the plans of the Shakorites?


Ah, but that is another question altogether.

The current state of politics of the Privy Council may point in that direction, but the Khanid Kingdom is still not formally involved in the war to my knowledge. We do not even know if they actually participate in any way, unless you have some privy info on the matter ?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#156 - 2013-12-25 11:05:14 UTC
To lady D'Hanguest :

I will try to say something that I am not accustomed to. You should have listened to what I told you, even if I may not be the best example.

There are other ways to weigh in Amarrian politics. You will not damage PIE Inc reputation by reacting like they are expecting you to do. You will do more damage by enduring and patiently collecting all the blunders they are used to do over the years. Their worst enemies are not their foes, but themselves.
Zelarrs Elkoth
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#157 - 2013-12-25 12:30:35 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Since when the Khanid area is included in that proxy war ?


Firstly Khanid holds a seat on the Privy Council, and is therefore involved in the prosecution of the war

Secondly where do you think the Shakorite regime occupying Pator will turn its attentions to next should the Empire fail? Do you think those Minmatar slaves in the Kingdom are somehow not in the plans of the Shakorites?


Ah, but that is another question altogether.

The current state of politics of the Privy Council may point in that direction, but the Khanid Kingdom is still not formally involved in the war to my knowledge. We do not even know if they actually participate in any way, unless you have some privy info on the matter ?


Even the arch-separatist D'Hanguest fights in the war. You seem to be alone in holding the Khanid Kingdom as not having a dog in this fight.

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Captain, Head of Diplomacy, Recruiting Officer Contact on channel: "PIE Public" "I walk the razor's edge of embracing the future while protecting what we value of the past."

Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#158 - 2013-12-25 13:07:09 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
To lady D'Hanguest :

I will try to say something that I am not accustomed to. You should have listened to what I told you, even if I may not be the best example.

There are other ways to weigh in Amarrian politics. You will not damage PIE Inc reputation by reacting like they are expecting you to do. You will do more damage by enduring and patiently collecting all the blunders they are used to do over the years. Their worst enemies are not their foes, but themselves.
Dear Lyn,

I’ve learnt that lesson. But you judge me wrong if you believe I want to weigh in politics. I have no illusions about the true nature of this. Look at what my sister wrote and the reaction she got—truth is not an issue of interest. The allies of PIE turn away their eyes when PIE’s leadership and their foot soldiers alike lie and behave dishonestly. They just continue with their sick charade.

My only desire is to be just and true to my principles. I agree with you that by “collecting all the blunders they are used to do over the years” you can do more damage. But I am not a politician, I am a lone fighter who cannot stand lies and corruption. Like the forlorn fighter against the machine, I prefer my own death and destruction over the triumph of evil. I cannot sit back and do nothing. I am a capsuleer and therefore I fight. When the forces of evil triumph I will have no part in it—but the Lord will prevent it and He will lead the righteous to victory and eternal glory.

Our Lord is my witness and He alone will judge me, and those who judge me now.

Best,
Odelya
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#159 - 2013-12-25 13:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Zelarrs Elkoth wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Since when the Khanid area is included in that proxy war ?


Firstly Khanid holds a seat on the Privy Council, and is therefore involved in the prosecution of the war

Secondly where do you think the Shakorite regime occupying Pator will turn its attentions to next should the Empire fail? Do you think those Minmatar slaves in the Kingdom are somehow not in the plans of the Shakorites?


Ah, but that is another question altogether.

The current state of politics of the Privy Council may point in that direction, but the Khanid Kingdom is still not formally involved in the war to my knowledge. We do not even know if they actually participate in any way, unless you have some privy info on the matter ?


Even the arch-separatist D'Hanguest fights in the war. You seem to be alone in holding the Khanid Kingdom as not having a dog in this fight.


And yet, the Kingdom Navy does not participate in any way in the CEWPA theater, much like the Ammatar Fleet does not either. Only direct Amarrian forces are committed at the moment.
Morijah d'Hanguest
Ishtirak d'Hanguest
#160 - 2013-12-25 13:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Morijah d'Hanguest
Erin Savonarola wrote:
unwanted advise

In the Name of the Lord


Contessa,

Her Grace wishes to inform you that she finds your paternalistic manner of speech irritating, yet believes that your message was well-intentioned. That said she still does not need unwanted advise, neither public nor private, from Amarrian holders who do not know her.

The inhabitants of Palas are devoted to Her Grace and their support is overwhelming. Also the reaction Her Grace has received from other Khanid holders and the lesser nobility is overwhelmingly positive.

This morning Her Grace has issued a Ducal Decree declaring that the motto of her house and lands shall be changed to “We want to remain what we are!” from now until forever.

Yours sincerely,
Morijah d’Hanguest
Ducal Chancellor