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Rubicon, New Eden and the Size of the Galaxy

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Anslo
Scope Works
#21 - 2013-12-02 21:42:53 UTC
I remember reading that the original colonials couldnt even map the stars when they first arrived. Pretty sure new eden and Eve is not in the milky way. Only Adam and whats left of the terrans is still there.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Trioxis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-12-04 02:04:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Trioxis
The old EVE storyline intro doesn't specifically state whether the entire Milky Way Galaxy was colonized or not, just that 'the stargates could take them no further'. So it's ambiguous about the possibility of New Eden being located in the Milky Way or not. The EVE Universe: Origins vid someone linked earlier does state that the EVE Gate offered passage to a 'remote corner of the universe'. I'm not sure if the latter could be considered part of the official EVE lore but I'd like to think it is.

Also, considering the type of galaxy I've found this on the wiki:

Quote:
Smuggler's Gate

Found exclusively in 0.0 space, these pirate faction gates create a link between two systems in adjacent spiral arms of the New Eden galaxy.
Rogue Lawyer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-12-05 18:39:15 UTC
Trioxis wrote:
The old EVE storyline intro doesn't specifically state whether the entire Milky Way Galaxy was colonized or not, just that 'the stargates could take them no further'. So it's ambiguous about the possibility of New Eden being located in the Milky Way or not. The EVE Universe: Origins vid someone linked earlier does state that the EVE Gate offered passage to a 'remote corner of the universe'. I'm not sure if the latter could be considered part of the official EVE lore but I'd like to think it is.

Also, considering the type of galaxy I've found this on the wiki:

Quote:
Smuggler's Gate

Found exclusively in 0.0 space, these pirate faction gates create a link between two systems in adjacent spiral arms of the New Eden galaxy.


Aye, much like you sometimes I find the Lore about the nature of New Eden appears to be contradictory. But with the new Eve info book that CCP Falcon has posted about coming out next year things should become clearer soon enough.

Kind Regards.
Shiva Darksun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-12-06 01:10:09 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I remember reading that the original colonials couldnt even map the stars when they first arrived. Pretty sure new eden and Eve is not in the milky way.


That doesn't prove anything. The Milky Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars. If the New Eden space is located far enough, the whole sky would look completely alien, even if within the same galaxy.

Analogy: Imagine an ant living on the living room window which is taken to the basement. Same house, but would it figure this out? I guess not.
Trioxis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-12-06 11:41:38 UTC
Shiva Darksun wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I remember reading that the original colonials couldnt even map the stars when they first arrived. Pretty sure new eden and Eve is not in the milky way.


That doesn't prove anything. The Milky Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars. If the New Eden space is located far enough, the whole sky would look completely alien, even if within the same galaxy.

Analogy: Imagine an ant living on the living room window which is taken to the basement. Same house, but would it figure this out? I guess not.


The analogy is flawed. Moving from one side of the Milky Way to the complete opposite side would be more like moving an ant from one living room window to one on the other side of the room. It would leave you with most of the 'landmarks' just where they are relative to each other, you're just seeing them from a different perspective.

Of course that is assuming the EVE Gate was just a bridge to another point in space but not time. If travel through the wormhole also displaced the colonists in time it's a completely different matter. A lot of the stars in New Eden appear to be significantly older than what we currently believe the age of the universe to be though.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-12-07 07:38:13 UTC
CCP might have removed/retconned it but I think it was once said that the Eve wormhole had one end in the Canopus system in the Milky Way and no one knew where, "New Eden" actually was because of all the dust and gas was occluding observation beyond a certain point so they were unsure if it was even also in the Milky Way itself.

Then there's also the Ginnugap which is described as a supermassive black hole, so I guess New Eden is located somewhere near the centre of a galaxy perhaps and is surrounded by a halo of extremely dense gas and dust?

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Trioxis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-12-07 09:53:44 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
CCP might have removed/retconned it but I think it was once said that the Eve wormhole had one end in the Canopus system in the Milky Way and no one knew where, "New Eden" actually was because of all the dust and gas was occluding observation beyond a certain point so they were unsure if it was even also in the Milky Way itself.

Then there's also the Ginnugap which is described as a supermassive black hole, so I guess New Eden is located somewhere near the centre of a galaxy perhaps and is surrounded by a halo of extremely dense gas and dust?


This thread is of particular importance. The location of the EVE Gate in the Milky Way, assuming the other end was not, was apparently the Canopus system, as confirmed by CCP Eterne.

Also note this response from CCP Falcon when someone said humanity had already covered the entire Milky Way by the time they discovered the wormhole:
Quote:
Not the entire Milky Way, but we'd reached the limits of where technology could take us, and were starting to suffer from conflict due to resource scarcity and overcrowding.


The very early backstory can still be found here.

Regarding the Ginnungagap, it's definitely a black hole but I'm not sure if it is a supermassive one. Curiously, Ginnungagap comes from Norse mythology and refers to a 'vast, primordial void that existed prior to the creation of the manifest universe.'
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-12-07 10:47:17 UTC
Trioxis wrote:


Regarding the Ginnungagap, it's definitely a black hole but I'm not sure if it is a supermassive one. Curiously, Ginnungagap comes from Norse mythology and refers to a 'vast, primordial void that existed prior to the creation of the manifest universe.'


I only raised the point because if you look at the range of jumpdrives and the amount of systems you can jump to in say a 5ly radius there's quite a few, and then if you consider that the systems you can jump to are probably only those with planetary bodies or exploitable resources, New Eden as presented seems quite dense with stars in astronomical terms. Which is why it being near the centre of a galaxy in the vicinity of a supermassive black hole can make sense.

I have no idea why anywhere you go in k-space in New Eden seems surrounded by a vast nebula or dust cloud though, but it's not like we have access to astronomical data about the place to make much sense of it all.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#29 - 2013-12-25 00:59:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Iella Wesirri wrote:
I guess what you don't know, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned, is that New Eden is part of a spiral galaxy. Namely, the milky way. It is not its own galaxy. Just another part of our own.


It's definitely not in or near the milky way galaxy, the lore clearly states that the location cannot be determined as there are no clear sky markers like pulsars that can be observed that match any known records making triangulation impossible. It's been speculated that new eden may exist within an entirely different universe altogether or or very distant part of our own universe. However the new eden cluster is definitely a part of a much larger structure most probably a spiral galaxy as evidenced by the banding that can be seen in the skies of New Eden.

Anoikis space has been triangulated by project compass to approximately 1500 ly to the south east (in relative mapping terms) to New Eden though there are holes in the data that contradict this such as the large numbers of pulsars and the occasional black hole system which cosmologists would not expect to form in such close proximity to each other as well as observations from wh residents who report that they cannot directly observe any of these things beyond their own solar systems. This leads many to think that the project compass data is erroneous to say the least.

Interestingly the new eden star cluster rotates around a 'central point which had been confirmed to be a small Black Hole which over the course of its existence has profoundly shaped the cluster and the solar systems within it.

Meta:

It is worth noting that ccp said that you can Google each wh system identifer, I.e. j123456 and that each system corresponds to a star catalogue entry used by rl astronomers to locate and identify deep sky objects such as pulsars, quasars and black holes hinting that the New Eden cluster is located within our universe, so you will have to make of that what you will.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
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