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DevBlog Abuse!
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Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2013-12-23 14:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
I found this , digging the dev blogs.
Funny thing is that you have to modify so little for this text to be so adequate to current slowcat situation.
Especially when you use 180km range slowcats as main damage dealers and motherships rest of 230 carriers as a logistic ships.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2674

Quote:
Capital ship balancing

Slowcats Supercapitals are too hard to kill

We wanted to make them a little bit weaker, but not gut them completely. We're doing a simple 20% reduction in Shield, Armor and Hull hitpoints on both Supercarriers and titans.

Slowcats Supercapitalsare far too versatile

The reason that slowcats Supercapitals can deal with any size of ship is the versatility provided by its massive drone bay. Having access to almost unlimited combat drones of all sizes and being able to launch 20 2500 ,as a fleet, of them at a time means that they have an answer to almost any situation. In fact, we found that drones on capital ships in general to be detrimental to the way fleet fights should work. If you want to deal with sub-capitals, you should bring your own sub-capitals or a carrier.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#2 - 2013-12-23 14:58:49 UTC
"Waaaaaaah, the solutions (that we know) to this problem are too hard, waaaaaaah, CCP nerf!"

Either:
- Adapt Or Die.
- Get Some Friends.
- Think Outside Boxes.
- Drop The Hammers.
- Use Overwhelming Forces.
- Kill The Drones.

And, as a bonus, the CCP endorsed solution to any/all problems:
- Harden The **** Up!

Have a nice holiday!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-12-23 14:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Anthar Thebess wrote:
I found this , digging the dev blogs.
Funny thing is that you have to modify so little for this text to be so adequate to current slowcat situation.
Especially when you use 180km range slowcats as main damage dealers and motherships rest of 230 carriers as a logistic ships.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2674

Quote:
Capital ship balancing

Slowcats Supercapitals are too hard to kill

We wanted to make them a little bit weaker, but not gut them completely. We're doing a simple 20% reduction in Shield, Armor and Hull hitpoints on both Supercarriers and titans.

Slowcats Supercapitalsare far too versatile

The reason that slowcats Supercapitals can deal with any size of ship is the versatility provided by its massive drone bay. Having access to almost unlimited combat drones of all sizes and being able to launch 20 2500 ,as a fleet, of them at a time means that they have an answer to almost any situation. In fact, we found that drones on capital ships in general to be detrimental to the way fleet fights should work. If you want to deal with sub-capitals, you should bring your own sub-capitals or a carrier.



You cannot put them on same boat. Before a simple group of 20 Motherships were already at a critical level. Slowcats only started to reach this level with 10 times more ships.

Something can and should be made to prevent complete dominance. But you need to give more time to the game to see if people find solutions (goons are still trying) and be careful to any balance just not be a nerfbat that removes a doctrine from the game nerfing MONTHS of training of THOUSANDS of players into an useless state.


I for once think the carriers should have SEPARATE fighters and drone bays and they should have a bit over the drone bay of a dominix only (something like 800M).

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Anthar Thebess
#4 - 2013-12-23 15:09:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Quote:
Capital ship balancing

You cannot put them on same boat. Before a simple group of 20 Motherships were already at a critical level. Slowcats only started to reach this level with 10 times more ships.



So what do you say about a fleet 230 slowcats dedicated for dps at range 180km, having ability to remote repair rest of the fleet, and if for some reason someone decide that he will drop ewar ships to block theirs remote repair abilities - you put to your ship 20 motherships as logistics.
Hey they are immune to ewar.

So we are talking about 20 motherships AND 230 remote repping carriers.
Massive EHP and MASSIVE remote logistics capabilities capable of killing every thing within 180km.
Range that blocks every high dps ammo that could allow to alpha some carriers.

Where will be the point that subcapital fleet will be required on battlefield to guard capitals doing the 'job'.

If you drop dreads you have to guard them, as simple t1 destroyers can kill them without sustaining looses.
If you drop slowcats having supercarrier logistics you don't have to be worry about any thing.

Bombing sentry drones?
Carrier can scope them , and carry 3200 spare ones in their bay.

Edit, sorry i didnt noticed this:

Quote:
Slowcats only started to reach this level with 10 times more ships.


You actually agree: 20 motherships = 200 slowcats in one fleet.
So it is time for change.
And oh - we have 230 slowcats AND 20 motherships AND other slowcat /super fleet waiting if something go wrong.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
iskflakes
#5 - 2013-12-23 15:35:25 UTC
Help CCP!

Our coalition is afraid to use titans to kill slowcats!

Please help us!

Why aren't we winning yet?

-
Anthar Thebess
#6 - 2013-12-23 16:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
iskflakes wrote:
Help CCP!
Our coalition is afraid to use titans to kill slowcats!
Please help us!
Why aren't we winning yet?


Thank you for posting from your alt.
Check KB we are fighting this fleets , constantly, and it is still hard to tell who is winning and who is loosing.
There are sov f*****s - ok this is still -A- , even when most of the old -A- is now in PL .

Problem is that in those gigantic bloob fights there are actually less and less fights in this TIDI 2% eve.

Subcaps cannot get into the range of capitals, and capitals cannot leave range of remote repairs.
So all fleets jump to system and wait until one of the sides achieve its objective.
You are posting this from alt so you probably know this already.

I relay miss early fights of this wars, where fleets actually clash on each other to the point that for some hull types jita was not able to catch up with supply.

THAT was real eve, THAT was fun.
Now there is just nonsense of 2% tidi and rewarps, and constantly dying dictors.

Truth is that eve devs have to solve this in the way they decide to be correct - but this dev blog proves that eve again reached point that their intervention is a must.

Eve players again faces the same problems that forced changes described in this dev blog, and again it is connected to the same issue.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Zulu Death Mask
Yaxchilan
#7 - 2013-12-23 16:17:22 UTC
There's quite a few threads about this problem.
CCP seems to be avoiding it like the plague.

I can't find a single dev comment on the issue.
Shocked
Anthar Thebess
#8 - 2013-12-23 16:24:49 UTC
Zulu Death Mask wrote:
There's quite a few threads about this problem.
CCP seems to be avoiding it like the plague.

I can't find a single dev comment on the issue.
Shocked

I know im trying to propose some partial solution that might help in some way :
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=306272

Something that force to provide cover for slowcats , as optimal range for drones is reduced to max 90km.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-12-23 17:51:09 UTC
Zulu Death Mask wrote:
There's quite a few threads about this problem.
CCP seems to be avoiding it like the plague.

I can't find a single dev comment on the issue.
Shocked

I think the only comment will be "Working as intended. Stop crying, wait for tiericide. For now, adapt or die."

After all that sperg about naglfar fleets, the CFC sure are crying hard. Did they not work out or something? And if they did, do you need to whine so much?

Dodixie > Hek
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2013-12-23 17:58:39 UTC
buff fighters. I don't know how this is supposed to help, but do it anyway.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Zulu Death Mask
Yaxchilan
#11 - 2013-12-23 17:59:43 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Zulu Death Mask wrote:
There's quite a few threads about this problem.
CCP seems to be avoiding it like the plague.

I can't find a single dev comment on the issue.
Shocked

I think the only comment will be "Working as intended. Stop crying, wait for tiericide. For now, adapt or die."

After all that sperg about naglfar fleets, the CFC sure are crying hard. Did they not work out or something? And if they did, do you need to whine so much?


I don't think anything can work if one side can crash the node whenever they wish.
And please let's not confuse critique with whining... have we not graduated kindergarden?

The point isn't who will win... it's how the winning is done and whether it includes fun in the recipe ;/
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#12 - 2013-12-23 18:00:58 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
I found this , digging the dev blogs.
Funny thing is that you have to modify so little for this text to be so adequate to current slowcat situation.
Especially when you use 180km range slowcats as main damage dealers and motherships rest of 230 carriers as a logistic ships.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2674

Quote:
Capital ship balancing

Slowcats Supercapitals are too hard to kill

We wanted to make them a little bit weaker, but not gut them completely. We're doing a simple 20% reduction in Shield, Armor and Hull hitpoints on both Supercarriers and titans.

Slowcats Supercapitalsare far too versatile

The reason that slowcats Supercapitals can deal with any size of ship is the versatility provided by its massive drone bay. Having access to almost unlimited combat drones of all sizes and being able to launch 20 2500 ,as a fleet, of them at a time means that they have an answer to almost any situation. In fact, we found that drones on capital ships in general to be detrimental to the way fleet fights should work. If you want to deal with sub-capitals, you should bring your own sub-capitals or a carrier.



The solution is for the CFC to grow a pair, and put their Supers on the field.
Alternatively, you could field 200 slowcats, and the N3 can show you how to counter it live...on Twitch TV.

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#13 - 2013-12-23 18:16:53 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

So we are talking about 20 motherships AND 230 remote repping carriers.
Massive EHP and MASSIVE remote logistics capabilities capable of killing every thing within 180km.


Lets face it anyone who can field 250 people in a fleet is going to be tough to kill no matter what ships they are flying. There's nothing stopping you from bringing 500 slowcats yourself, ya know, instead of screaming "omgz nerf it pl0x!"
Aranial
Empyrean Warriors
#14 - 2013-12-23 18:17:42 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Quote:
Capital ship balancing

You cannot put them on same boat. Before a simple group of 20 Motherships were already at a critical level. Slowcats only started to reach this level with 10 times more ships.



So what do you say about a fleet 230 slowcats dedicated for dps at range 180km, having ability to remote repair rest of the fleet, and if for some reason someone decide that he will drop ewar ships to block theirs remote repair abilities - you put to your ship 20 motherships as logistics.
Hey they are immune to ewar.

So we are talking about 20 motherships AND 230 remote repping carriers.
Massive EHP and MASSIVE remote logistics capabilities capable of killing every thing within 180km.
Range that blocks every high dps ammo that could allow to alpha some carriers.

Where will be the point that subcapital fleet will be required on battlefield to guard capitals doing the 'job'.

If you drop dreads you have to guard them, as simple t1 destroyers can kill them without sustaining looses.
If you drop slowcats having supercarrier logistics you don't have to be worry about any thing.

Bombing sentry drones?
Carrier can scope them , and carry 3200 spare ones in their bay.

Edit, sorry i didnt noticed this:

Quote:
Slowcats only started to reach this level with 10 times more ships.


You actually agree: 20 motherships = 200 slowcats in one fleet.
So it is time for change.
And oh - we have 230 slowcats AND 20 motherships AND other slowcat /super fleet waiting if something go wrong.


You do know right that if we want to use 180km range carriers we can't use RR on them right? Or haven't you even researched it that much?
Zulu Death Mask
Yaxchilan
#15 - 2013-12-23 18:23:27 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

So we are talking about 20 motherships AND 230 remote repping carriers.
Massive EHP and MASSIVE remote logistics capabilities capable of killing every thing within 180km.


Lets face it anyone who can field 250 people in a fleet is going to be tough to kill no matter what ships they are flying. There's nothing stopping you from bringing 500 slowcats yourself, ya know, instead of screaming "omgz nerf it pl0x!"


The CFC could probably do that... would we actually see it in action? No... we wouldn't, node not-permitting.
However I do find it funny when more slowcats is the solution to the slowcat problem :D
Anthar Thebess
#16 - 2013-12-23 18:45:41 UTC
Zulu Death Mask wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

So we are talking about 20 motherships AND 230 remote repping carriers.
Massive EHP and MASSIVE remote logistics capabilities capable of killing every thing within 180km.


Lets face it anyone who can field 250 people in a fleet is going to be tough to kill no matter what ships they are flying. There's nothing stopping you from bringing 500 slowcats yourself, ya know, instead of screaming "omgz nerf it pl0x!"


The CFC could probably do that... would we actually see it in action? No... we wouldn't, node not-permitting.
However I do find it funny when more slowcats is the solution to the slowcat problem :D



+1
Thats the problem.
Solution is brining more slowcats,dreads.
But eve is not ready for this, especially servers - every one heard about how server nodes act during those battles.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#17 - 2013-12-23 18:55:04 UTC
Aranial wrote:


You do know right that if we want to use 180km range carriers we can't use RR on them right? Or haven't you even researched it that much?


Pretty sure that by "fleet" he means the other slowcats, 180km drone range is fairly trivial for sentries and aslong as the slowcats are together they can rep each other, granted 180km out they cant rep anything else but pretty sure he meant the slowcat fleet not the minions in the fleet
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-12-23 19:19:45 UTC
Zulu Death Mask wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Zulu Death Mask wrote:
There's quite a few threads about this problem.
CCP seems to be avoiding it like the plague.

I can't find a single dev comment on the issue.
Shocked

I think the only comment will be "Working as intended. Stop crying, wait for tiericide. For now, adapt or die."

After all that sperg about naglfar fleets, the CFC sure are crying hard. Did they not work out or something? And if they did, do you need to whine so much?


I don't think anything can work if one side can crash the node whenever they wish.
And please let's not confuse critique with whining... have we not graduated kindergarden?

The point isn't who will win... it's how the winning is done and whether it includes fun in the recipe ;/

N3 trying to have tu. Goons have already stated publicly, they play to PREVENT fun because they are goons and making eve boring is how they win
Honest Blob
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-12-23 19:33:44 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
I found this , digging the dev blogs.
Funny thing is that you have to modify so little for this text to be so adequate to current slowcat situation.
Especially when you use 180km range slowcats as main damage dealers and motherships rest of 230 carriers as a logistic ships.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2674

Quote:
Capital ship balancing

Slowcats Supercapitals are too hard to kill

We wanted to make them a little bit weaker, but not gut them completely. We're doing a simple 20% reduction in Shield, Armor and Hull hitpoints on both Supercarriers and titans.

Slowcats Supercapitalsare far too versatile

The reason that slowcats Supercapitals can deal with any size of ship is the versatility provided by its massive drone bay. Having access to almost unlimited combat drones of all sizes and being able to launch 20 2500 ,as a fleet, of them at a time means that they have an answer to almost any situation. In fact, we found that drones on capital ships in general to be detrimental to the way fleet fights should work. If you want to deal with sub-capitals, you should bring your own sub-capitals or a carrier.



Sounds like your coalition needs to nutt the hell up and use its capital fleet. This is a bit amuseing seeing coven qq. Hows your little renter empire going in paragon?
Aranial
Empyrean Warriors
#20 - 2013-12-23 19:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Aranial
Cypherous wrote:
Aranial wrote:


You do know right that if we want to use 180km range carriers we can't use RR on them right? Or haven't you even researched it that much?


Pretty sure that by "fleet" he means the other slowcats, 180km drone range is fairly trivial for sentries and aslong as the slowcats are together they can rep each other, granted 180km out they cant rep anything else but pretty sure he meant the slowcat fleet not the minions in the fleet



No, to be able to hit things at 180km the carriers have to use 5 Drone link augmentors thereby sacrificing all RR ability on the carriers.
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