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A local thread worth reading and discussing.
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Ragnarok Knight
ROGUE - DRONES
#1 - 2013-12-19 04:52:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ragnarok Knight
http://themittani.com/features/dont-touch-local

OK so i just finished reading the 2 pages written here and.....i've got to say he makes a string of valid points. I pretty much agree with every single thing he wrote down.....

....but then i had a simple - yet - awesome idea....

The one point he misses here is that not having local can be FUN. People in wormholes LIKE not having local. Pilgrim/t3/etc pilots LOVE having no local.

Everything local gives you, makes a pilgrim pilot's life WORSE, not better.

but wormhole space is hard to live inside of! logistics....time....finding a group of people.

Only a tiny fraction of eve's population will every really experience what it's like to live in local-less space.

SO here is my awesome suggestion, which acknowledges every-thing mitanni says, and builds upon it!

Just remove local from ONLY from NPC nullsec space.

Pro's:
Doesn't mess up all the game mechanics and interactions Mitanni quotes.
Allows non-wormhole players to experience local-less space.
Improves small gang roams for area's that are notorious for those activities to begin with.

Con's:
Errr, i really can't think of any.

No seriously.....i can't. By leaving the vast majority of space untouched everything stays the same the way people like it. BUT the one area where it would ADD to the game-play-dynamics of eve is npc nullsec.
No major alliances live there because the space is already owned by NPC's.
As a bonus its fluffy! The areas of space are illegally owned by NPC factions so........they hack the star-gates!

This would also make the Pirate faction mission runners have to take more risk to get those juicy rewards of BPO's....but so they should! Those things are worth billions!

Basically, please bump this thread if you agree.

I think i've made everyone happy, the people who want to experience local-free-space without the hellish-inconvenience of living in WH space, AND the mitanni at the same time :)
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#2 - 2013-12-19 06:50:04 UTC
no
Chi Garu
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-12-19 10:05:34 UTC
Why not make it so when a ship cloaks, it vanishes from local also!

Ahahah, yes that's the best idea. PCoolLol
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-12-19 12:12:09 UTC
I like local. I lived in WH space for some time and left again. The ISK were great but it took forever to find a fight. With local, I can jump into a system and see immideately if someone is there that could give me a fight. A little bit of DScanning and I know approx where he is. And if I dont find him after 5 secs of scanning, I know he must be saved or docked and just leave the system.
Dont take this away. I want to be able to pvp without having to scan and search for targets for an hour.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Dan Carter Murray
#5 - 2013-12-19 15:07:36 UTC
Ragnarok Knight wrote:

Just remove local from ONLY from NPC nullsec space.


why not make sov null have no local instead?

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#6 - 2013-12-19 16:21:03 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Ragnarok Knight wrote:

Just remove local from ONLY from NPC nullsec space.


why not make sov null have no local instead?

Indeed, that makes more sense. If any part of null sec should run on player only intel instead of npc fed local it should be that part that is owned by the players and for which they are responsible.

Can't see the problem with local myself tbh though, as far as not wasting 10 minutes probing empty systems is concerned. Yes it is a powerful intel tool, but this is a game and there is surely a balance between super-serious-intelz and actually finding a fight before you log off.

It might need tweaking, maybe a delay so that pilots only show once they break their gate-cloak immunity or something, but having something to tell you there is potential gameplay in this bit of space is pretty vital to not wasting whole evenings spamming dscan or probing empty systems. Assuming you still play eve as a game that is.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#7 - 2013-12-19 16:27:41 UTC
Chi Garu wrote:
Why not make it so when a ship cloaks, it vanishes from local also!

Ahahah, yes that's the best idea. PCoolLol

What was that? The ship that uses a cloak loses access to local as well?
Altered Ego
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-12-20 08:06:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Altered Ego
I also read that article from TheMittani.com and, although Sion Kumitomo is very logical and obviously a fairly intelligent guy, he almost seems to be taking things that is probably/obviously wrong with local and simply saying they are good.

X Gallentius wrote:
Chi Garu wrote:
Why not make it so when a ship cloaks, it vanishes from local also!

Ahahah, yes that's the best idea. PCoolLol

What was that? The ship that uses a cloak loses access to local as well?


Now that is a very interesting idea ...

EDIT: Other 'Fix to Local' suggestion deleted, let's stay on topic. =)
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#9 - 2013-12-20 16:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Quote:
Solo ratters

...will just leave nullsec and mission solo in empire.


Okay... so?

Quote:
It would instead cause wary fleet commanders to commit less often and to smaller fights where fewer assets are on the line, and it would further incentivize mass blobbing


.... which is it then? Smaller engagements or more blobbing?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
trader joes Ichinumi
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-12-20 16:53:23 UTC
If they do this, they need to rework D-scan as well. Clicking D-scan every 5-10 seconds isn't fun. Having to do that constantly because there is no local would be even worse.

No, it isn't hard, but its repetitive and boring. Simply automating the process wouldn't work either though, as D-scan is very powerful. The entire system would have to be reworked at once.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#11 - 2013-12-20 17:28:34 UTC
the issue with the local debate is that most people argue its merits/deficiencies without having an idea of what would replace it. Ultimately any solution needs to be comprehensive, involving d-scan and the sensor overlay. Most people discus what would happen if changes were made to local without any other changes elsewhere.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#12 - 2013-12-20 18:48:48 UTC
So many tears about local

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-12-20 20:27:13 UTC
A compromise would be cool. Local around your ship, stations, stargates and POS. 14 au. Same as scanner range. Anything outside that range does not appear in local. Systems with Outposts get full local.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Altered Ego
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-12-21 13:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Altered Ego
trader joes Ichinumi wrote:
If they do this, they need to rework D-scan as well. Clicking D-scan every 5-10 seconds isn't fun. Having to do that constantly because there is no local would be even worse.


I agree ... this is a game, therefore is should be fun. Local is broke because it gives away too much info too easily, wich is not fun. D-scan is broke because it breaks immersion and is not fun to use. In spite of all this, we still need to give localised info to pilots, becausae stumbling around in the dark is not fun.

Batelle wrote:
the issue with the local debate is that most people argue its merits/deficiencies without having an idea of what would replace it.


Actually, that's the easy part ... If you really want to fix local/d-scan, you need two fully functional overviews; one for on grid and a new one for the long range scan. Awesome ... even more clutter. The REAL problem is the User Interface, EVE has crammed way too much information into the layout they have chosen for the UI.

What's the solution? Unix has been doing this for years with multiple desk tops as thier operators tend to be power users who usually have quite a few applications open, but I think an example the more people can relate to is a modern browser. It's pretty much standard now that a browser has multile tabs and undockable windows.

If we addeed that functionality, a user could alt-tab between the veiw from his pods window, into his new intuitive scanner tab, then alt-tab again for a quick look at the window he's stuffed with the misc. stuff (market, chat channels and email), then back to the pilot view.
kurage87
EVE University
Ivy League
#15 - 2013-12-21 16:40:29 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Quote:
Solo ratters

...will just leave nullsec and mission solo in empire.


Okay... so?

Heh, yeah I read that as, "It'd make my nullsec alliance weaker, wahwahwah."
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#16 - 2013-12-21 17:22:30 UTC
How about the ability to pay a bribe to concord so you don't show up in local for a set amount of time?

Make it a PLEX for a month's immunity.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-12-23 06:00:18 UTC
I've always thought that local's existence in Sov Null should depend on the alliance. For example, if an alliance holds a system, they can anchor put a pilot scanner to make local work (Or, conversely, something to inhibit local but have it on by default). Then local would depend on the players in the system in question. Since there are both sides as to whether or not local is beneficial (I can hide better/I have no idea who's out there), alliances would have to weigh the pros and cons of a system to determine whether it is worth not having local. To balance this though, it would have to have a very long onlining time, otherwise people would just turn local on and off through systems to mask their movements.

Then again, that could be awesome....