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Maelstrom v Machariel v Fleet Tempest v Vargur
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Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#21 - 2013-12-19 04:05:57 UTC
Zero Neutral Revenge wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
The term "end game" doesn't apply to EVE. Go kill some people in whatever ship class you personally enjoy flying.


That, imo, is wrong... I really don't think that people are flying rookie frigates in high isk reward missions or incursions or what ever else exists (in the end-game).

EVE has end-game content like any other game, regardless of how many options exist... back on topic now please.



The end game for Eve is PvP. It is by the designers own admission a PvP game with some PvE content.

That said, the PvE "Endgame" would be Incursions and the best ship would depend on the fleet comp of your incursion group.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-12-19 13:22:04 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Zero Neutral Revenge wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
The term "end game" doesn't apply to EVE. Go kill some people in whatever ship class you personally enjoy flying.


That, imo, is wrong... I really don't think that people are flying rookie frigates in high isk reward missions or incursions or what ever else exists (in the end-game).

EVE has end-game content like any other game, regardless of how many options exist... back on topic now please.



The end game for Eve is PvP. It is by the designers own admission a PvP game with some PvE content.

That said, the PvE "Endgame" would be Incursions and the best ship would depend on the fleet comp of your incursion group.


It's sad that some people think "End game" is doing highsec missions in a battleshipCry. There is no "End game" in Eve and if there was it wouldn't be in hghsec.
Zero Neutral Revenge
Bleeding Hearts United
#23 - 2013-12-19 15:58:49 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Zero Neutral Revenge wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
The term "end game" doesn't apply to EVE. Go kill some people in whatever ship class you personally enjoy flying.


That, imo, is wrong... I really don't think that people are flying rookie frigates in high isk reward missions or incursions or what ever else exists (in the end-game).

EVE has end-game content like any other game, regardless of how many options exist... back on topic now please.



The end game for Eve is PvP. It is by the designers own admission a PvP game with some PvE content.

That said, the PvE "Endgame" would be Incursions and the best ship would depend on the fleet comp of your incursion group.


It's sad that some people think "End game" is doing highsec missions in a battleshipCry. There is no "End game" in Eve and if there was it wouldn't be in hghsec.


Please drop this debate about end-game. It's a term to describe the things that players do during their careers. I.e. incursions, missions, null sec pvp... etc... that is all end-game. Back on the topic of my questions pls as debates about this, "End-game," stuff really doesn't help me at all.
Seriously Bored
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-12-19 18:52:22 UTC
I'll try to steer us back on topic. Blink

Zero Neutral Revenge wrote:

Thanks for the info everyone. Keep the opinions coming!

Do you happen to have an updated version of your Mini-Vargur Maelstrom fit?

I'm currently using a Maelstrom and I'm wondering how would you fit one today? Guristas are kicking my arse since they can hit me at all ranges and tend to all agro at the same time. I'm using a MJD/1400 arty fit.


I'll freely admit, my BC fits needs some love and updates… those puppies are way out of date.

I really dislike the MJD for missions. The fixed 100KM is too finicky and puts the ship outside of its ideal kill zone too often.

For Arties, I'd use 1400s, an AB, Heavy Cap booster, Mission-specific hardeners, and a Tracking Computer with tracking script. Lows: 4x Gyros, 1 TE, but I think you need Republic Gyros to not go over on CPU. (Just off the top of my head.) Pretty sure you'll need 1-2 ACR rigs to make it fit.

Absolutely use Republic Fleet EMP/PP/Fusion with 1400s. It looks expensive at first glance, but it really isn't with those big slow guns. Use your AB to maintain about 30-50km range, group your guns in 2s, and shoot the small stuff first when it's coming in a straight line.

For ACs it would essentially be the same fit, but with 800s and a MWD instead of an AB. It's good practice for the Vargur, but I don't recommend doing it until you have T2 ACs.

That's what I've toyed with, at any rate. I'm sure there's some fine-tuning to be done. (I can't decide on the optimal rigs for the ACs… I've been liking Semiconductor Memory Cells lately for the cap flexibility, but it's less necessary with a cap booster.)

Quote:
Also, let's talk a little bit more about the Machariel. Has CCP said that they want to nerf it?


They do want to nerf it (link farther above), but no one knows when or how. The price has been taking a dive though, to the point that it's almost 500k cheaper than a Vargur. The Varg will be cheaper for the overall total fit, however.
Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#25 - 2013-12-19 20:27:59 UTC
Yes, end game is relative

and you miss a lot of other ships that could be considered end game

all carriers especially archon

all Dreadnaughts

all mom's

all Titans

all strat cruisers

depending on situation any of these can also be considered end game ships.
Roxy Everdeen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-12-19 22:22:36 UTC
Zero Neutral Revenge wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Zero Neutral Revenge wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
The term "end game" doesn't apply to EVE. Go kill some people in whatever ship class you personally enjoy flying.


That, imo, is wrong... I really don't think that people are flying rookie frigates in high isk reward missions or incursions or what ever else exists (in the end-game).

EVE has end-game content like any other game, regardless of how many options exist... back on topic now please.



The end game for Eve is PvP. It is by the designers own admission a PvP game with some PvE content.

That said, the PvE "Endgame" would be Incursions and the best ship would depend on the fleet comp of your incursion group.


It's sad that some people think "End game" is doing highsec missions in a battleshipCry. There is no "End game" in Eve and if there was it wouldn't be in hghsec.


Please drop this debate about end-game. It's a term to describe the things that players do during their careers. I.e. incursions, missions, null sec pvp... etc... that is all end-game. Back on the topic of my questions pls as debates about this, "End-game," stuff really doesn't help me at all.


Wait you say to Ishira drop the debate but in the next sentence continue to debate it? That sounds like my wife... "Let's just drop this argument" is quicky followed by "I'm right"
Zero Neutral Revenge
Bleeding Hearts United
#27 - 2013-12-19 23:10:39 UTC
Let's say you're right now next post pls add something that gives me info about the game.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#28 - 2013-12-20 15:38:47 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
Zero Neutral Revenge wrote:
Let's say you're right now next post pls add something that gives me info about the game.

Haha I'll help ya out. Essentially this thread becomes pros and con's of the major mission runner projectile ships: the mach and the vargur.... Mach v vargur topics have been beaten to death.

In general, if you don't plan on looting and such, pick the mach. Otherwise go I'd say go vargur
Zero Neutral Revenge
Bleeding Hearts United
#29 - 2013-12-23 01:07:12 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Zero Neutral Revenge wrote:
Let's say you're right now next post pls add something that gives me info about the game.

Haha I'll help ya out. Essentially this thread becomes pros and con's of the major mission runner projectile ships: the mach and the vargur.... Mach v vargur topics have been beaten to death.

In general, if you don't plan on looting and such, pick the mach. Otherwise go I'd say go vargur


Thanks for the information everybody.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#30 - 2013-12-23 12:24:38 UTC
actually the vargur its the one with the lowest paper dps of the lot.
under 20km both the tempest and mael outdamage the vargur (considering angel mission this is not unlikely), mach and typhoon FI would just outdamage the varg all the way to locking range. this is if you go with AC, if you go arty the vargur its just a terrible terrible terrible ship
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#31 - 2013-12-23 14:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Estella Osoka
Seriously Bored wrote:
I'll try to steer us back on topic. Blink

Zero Neutral Revenge wrote:

Thanks for the info everyone. Keep the opinions coming!

Do you happen to have an updated version of your Mini-Vargur Maelstrom fit?

I'm currently using a Maelstrom and I'm wondering how would you fit one today? Guristas are kicking my arse since they can hit me at all ranges and tend to all agro at the same time. I'm using a MJD/1400 arty fit.


I'll freely admit, my BC fits needs some love and updates… those puppies are way out of date.

I really dislike the MJD for missions. The fixed 100KM is too finicky and puts the ship outside of its ideal kill zone too often.

For Arties, I'd use 1400s, an AB, Heavy Cap booster, Mission-specific hardeners, and a Tracking Computer with tracking script. Lows: 4x Gyros, 1 TE, but I think you need Republic Gyros to not go over on CPU. (Just off the top of my head.) Pretty sure you'll need 1-2 ACR rigs to make it fit.

Absolutely use Republic Fleet EMP/PP/Fusion with 1400s. It looks expensive at first glance, but it really isn't with those big slow guns. Use your AB to maintain about 30-50km range, group your guns in 2s, and shoot the small stuff first when it's coming in a straight line.

For ACs it would essentially be the same fit, but with 800s and a MWD instead of an AB. It's good practice for the Vargur, but I don't recommend doing it until you have T2 ACs.

That's what I've toyed with, at any rate. I'm sure there's some fine-tuning to be done. (I can't decide on the optimal rigs for the ACs… I've been liking Semiconductor Memory Cells lately for the cap flexibility, but it's less necessary with a cap booster.)

Quote:
Also, let's talk a little bit more about the Machariel. Has CCP said that they want to nerf it?


They do want to nerf it (link farther above), but no one knows when or how. The price has been taking a dive though, to the point that it's almost 500k cheaper than a Vargur. The Varg will be cheaper for the overall total fit, however.


The MJD is a beautiful device. Especially on a Maruader, where it gets the 70% reduction to reactivation. Using it properly takes a little skill in manual pilotting.

Faction ammo is cheap. Don't buy it off the market. instead buy standard ammo and then mission for a Minmatar NPC corp and use LP to buy your ammo. Alternatively you can just buy the BPO for the standard ammo, make it your self, and then use LP to buy faction ammo.

In reposnes to the OP, I think the question is a moot point. The mobile depot makes most of this irrelevant as you can refit mid-mission to suit whatever need you have.
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