Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Anyone who's ever used missiles knows that you don't hit at max range if your target is moving.

u wont be doing full damage with heavies, but if those ships are up close, they wont need prop mods to mitigate the damage of turrets either. this is just the nature of turrets vs missiles. The game simply does not hold missiles and turrets equal in ALL situations. sometimes missiles are better, sometimes turrets are better. u cant really change this without drastically changing the formula.

and flat out increasing the stats of missiles (including just their application) would improve their already advantageous position over turrets at closer ranges to an arguably overpowered extent. it must be at least considered the effect such changes would have on tackling frigs, where they are untouchable by most medium weapons, they'd be taking even more damage from missiles.

it would be prudent to train both and take missiles where missiles are warranted, and turrets where where turrets are warranted. Eve is a game of choice after all.

Granted I should've been more specific, at least I didn't blatantly ignore a major factor in missile or turret application.

part of the problem is that people continuously try to compare things that are not directly comparable
launchers and turrets have equivalences, but are not truly comparable

These are the equivalencies.

Raw Damage
Missiles - Base Damage and Rate of Fire
Turrets - Base Damage and Rate of Fire

The Difference :-
This is pretty much the only area where there is no real difference between the two different systems

ranges
Missiles - defined by Velocity x Flight Time
Turrets - defined by Optimal + Fall-Off

The difference :-
Velocity X Flight Time is a fixed and static value
Optimal + Fall-Off is a non static value where the chance to hit approaches 0 (roughly at somewhere between x2.3 to x2.6)

The full Fall-Off value is NEVER given by turret users when quoting possible ranges

Damage Application
Missiles - Targets Velocity and Signature Radius v's Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity
Turrets - Targets Velocity and Vector and Signature Radius v's Signature Resolution and Tracking Speed

The Difference :-
Missiles - Can only be modified via active modules that affect the target directly
Turrets - Can fit active modules that affect the target ship directly
Turrets - Can fit active & passive modules that boost the host ship
Turrets - Vector can be negated through piloting skills
Turrets - Tracking Speed is a major concern at very short ranges, and non-consequential at long ranges

Damage Modification
Missiles - Only ever hit
Turrets - Can miss and have a small range of modifiers up to a 300% increase

The difference :-
Missiles don't miss, but they never get a random 300% damage bonus either.


Why is the full Fall-Off value important?
At it's extreme value of ~x2.5 a hit is still possible, and due to the way eve calculates damage that hit can still produce a critical hit.

yup .. it's 300%

it is possible to fly in such a way that you increase your chance of making them, but if your against a turret based ship then they get the same bonus chances it's a 2 edged sword I guess.

to be honest a lot of people are very closed minded in their both opinions and views on how to 'fix' eve
if you can see and accept that missiles and turrets both have their strengths, and weaknesses then a nice healthy discussion can be had

its when you consider the variations in the platforms that the confusion can really start to form
blasters and railguns v's hml's and hams for example
it gets even worse when people start trying to compare ammunition types from differing platforms
null, spike, precision, rage .... just a few examples ...

sometimes I feel that not even CCP know or understand how the differing systems and ammunition types work in relation to each other



and yes .. a critical hit is very much a PRO turret (and drone) argument, simply because missiles do not have that ability.
it's an advantage with limitations .. but it's still there as a possibility.

Where did I mention ANYTHING about wrecking or grazing shots in the post above yours and if you don't want to be treated like a biased idiot, don't ignore facts. We already know the merits of turrets vs missiles, including how each set of turret compares to is equivalent launcher (small pulse, small autos, and small blasters to rockets, etc.) As for the pve comment, rats aren't usually known for their spead besides certain overseer npcs, and tackling frigate npcs.

I love how you focus on one very minor advantage for a missile system that never actually wants to be at close range (because heavy missile ships are not built for brawling) and somehow come to the conclusion that it outweighs the mountain of advantages long range medium turrets have over them in their intended range. There's a very good reason no one uses heavy missiles in PVP. Stop ignoring reality.

In "a game of choice" the only sensible choice is to never use heavy missiles in PVP. You believe this is good?

Have you ever PvP'd? Is this troll or sarcasm? I can't tell.

The Sacrilege, Caracal, HAM Legion, Tengu, Damnation, Nighthawk, Cerberus, Drake, Cyclone (just off the top of my head), and a couple of more ships would like to speak to you.

If you think these ships don't excel at PvP, you need to learn how to fit ships instead of whining about this very powerful weapon system.

You know how to apply percentages? Does nto seem so. 3 time s damage is 200% not 300%

And sicne the weapon grouping was implemented you NEVER EVER get the full 200%. The wreackign chance is calculated for each weapon.

And you if yout a combined wreackign for all the 6 or 8 guns then you shoudl be playing in the lottery .

1) Read before posting.

2) HAMs are highly mediocre, and half the ships you just listed are giant failboats in PVP.

3) Just admit you hate missiles and that you will only be happy when you know you can own any missile ship you encounter with your turrets.