Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Arthur, you're going to have to give me an example of missiles being affected by something we turret users refer to as "FALLOFF". You know, the range at which our damage is halved.

Pretty sure you can't. Enjoy trying, though.

We'll all patiently await your response.

So long as a target is capable of being hit, missiles hit.

Do missiles need to be looked at again? Obviously, yes. Will they ever again be the ridiculously OP weapons they once were (OP being defined as 500+ DPS Tengus shooting out to 100+ KM, or unbonused hulls, such as the Drake, shooting for full damage out to 75KM)? I devoutly hope not.

Once the ship balance passes are done, CCP can look more closely at missiles. Until then, LIVE WITH IT. They still work well, just not as well as you all are obviously used to.

Welcome to the world turret users have always been in. Your range is now somewhat comparable to ours, but without the loss of DPS that fighting in falloff causes. You still have the advantage of fighting while jammed. You don't miss, unless the target outruns your missiles (in this current era of Inty gangs, that's a threat, but one that turret users face, too - if they can outrun your missiles, they're moving too fast to track). You can still change damage types, still don't need cap, and have Rapid Launchers to allow you to better fight against smaller opponents, something for which there is no comparable turret counterpart.

Do we have tracking computers? Sure. Do you need one? At best, that question is debatable (perhaps this is why they gave you Rapid Launchers?).

All weapon systems have low-slot DPS enhancements, so any enhancement module would almost certainly have to be a mid-slot, cap-using unit. The question then becomes one of how to balance it, and will it be allowed to affect all launcher types? CCP clearly do not want RHML's to be capable of annihilating frigate hulls, but, if you examine the effects of what you're asking for, that is a possibility, particularly for the Typhoon - remember, hull bonuses do not incur stacking penalties.

My opinion is still that, with their inherent advantages over turrets, missiles do not need another module to enhance their capabilities - just a balance pass AFTER the ship balance passes are completed.

Except there aren't. The 'high application' turrets are only marginally better application than the normal DPS turrets that get used and in most cases you will actually get lower DPS even on the small nimble targets because you have lower DPS to start with and still can't apply it effectively.
You want to complain about people who you believe haven't used missiles, don't throw stones in glass houses and make yourself sound like a moron talking about turrets at the same time.

You do realize that many missiles (especially the problem missiles like heavies) pretty much never do full damage, or really anything approaching full damage, to anything unless it is large and slow right?

Mind sharing your fit? Because I'm not seeing it.

Using precisions vs an unlinked and no prop mod Maller gives perfect application.
This is precisions vs a same sized ship.
Vs a No links, No Prop mod Punisher, you are now down to about 35% of your damage, with precisions.

Using standard heavy missiles vs a Maller, you are also at only about 90% application.
This is a no links, no prop mod Maller, which is pretty well known as a brick, certainly not one of the fastest Cruisers out there.
Add links and a prop mod, and you might as well press self destruct.

The base stats just aren't there on application atm.
If a Maller can start to speed tank normal heavy missiles without prop mod, there is an issue after all.

50% of 500 DPS > 75% of 300 DPS.
Yes, these are simply numbers I made up to illustrate my point, but the reality is that is normally true with turrets because the difference in tracking between the weapon types is not that much for turrets. Unlike missiles who have large differences between their application.

35% of a Scythe FI's rather modest missile DPS might kill a Punisher...eventually...assuming it's not well-tanked...

I slowly get the impression that some of the guys here simply don't get it: EVE is a matter of choices. If you have different solutions to apply DPS then those different solutions will have different PROS and CONS. It is up to you to choose the right solution for your situation or fighting style. Furthermore, not all solutions are equally good for all situations or fighting styles.

The main difference between turret and missiles mechanics is, that if you put damage on the y-axis and disruption on the x-axis (which in this case is a summary of small signature, high speed, tracking disruption,...) then you simply get two different profiles for turrets and missiles:

a) Turrets have high damage under optimal conditions, but it drops fast to zero once disruption factors come into play.
b) Missiles have medium damage under optimal conditions, but they drop slowly and never to zero with raising disruption factors.

In short: if you do not like missiles, then just use drones or turrets and stop crying.

The point of no prop mod was to illustrate the silly situation missiles are in with their current base damage application. And how bad it currently is with things like heavy missiles.