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[ISHTI] Declaration of War

Author
Zelarrs Elkoth
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#81 - 2013-12-21 15:48:41 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Since this is all out in public, would one of the chief participants or antagonists mind clearly explaining what the Casus Belli for this was?

What is the conflict over? Spilled tea? Improper bowing and gesticulating to the proper degree and direction? Using a picture of Jamyl as a hankerchief?

Or are there actual philosophical differences at play? Or merely retribution for some insults?



I linked to it in my first post on the thread:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4021508#post4021508

Offending comments and ensuing vigorous discussion are in this thread here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=281488&find=unread

You perhaps looked at it and didn't think it worthy of all this hubub (such as it is), and to that I can only say I agree.

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Captain, Head of Diplomacy, Recruiting Officer Contact on channel: "PIE Public" "I walk the razor's edge of embracing the future while protecting what we value of the past."

Anslo
Scope Works
#82 - 2013-12-21 15:49:59 UTC
So basically she had a ***** fit and couldn't stomp hard enough to get her side to do anything, so she used money to get someone to kick over a sand castle.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Morijah d'Hanguest
Ishtirak d'Hanguest
#83 - 2013-12-21 16:18:24 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Since this is all out in public, would one of the chief participants or antagonists mind clearly explaining what the Casus Belli for this was?

What is the conflict over? Spilled tea? Improper bowing and gesticulating to the proper degree and direction? Using a picture of Jamyl as a hankerchief?

Or are there actual philosophical differences at play? Or merely retribution for some insults?

In the Name of the Lord


We deemed it necessary to declare war for the following reasons:

1.) Despite the lack of jurisdiction and competence Lord Admiral Lok’ri has accused Her Grace of heresy. While this would not concern us, since the institutions which usurp jurisdiction in the Empire do not exist in the Kingdom, we consider it to be an unprovoked attack by a supposedly allied (albeit schismatic) entity.

(The opinions expressed by Her Grace are not only always standing within the legitimate spectrum of the Khanid Orthodox Church, which remains independent from the churches of Amarr and is the true and complete continuation and preservation of that very church that Dano Gheinok founded, but are a shining example of clarity of thought and theological insight.)

2.) The lack of fulfilling the requirements to address Her Grace according to protocol and custom as established by the Book of Records under the entry of “Odelya of House d’Hanguest, Duchess of Palas” (and with the addition of “Hyperprotopansebastokratorissa” and “Porphyrogenita.”)

3.) A certain feeling of general disgust towards sycophancy, biased sophistry, arrogance, incompetence, the tendency to corrupt the innocent, shameless hypocrisy, and double-standards.

4.) Attempts of peaceful arbitration were made, but failed due to the unwillingness of PIE to open discussion: Not only is this war a war of self-defence against a guilty enemy, but all other means of putting an end to it have shown to be impractical.

Yours sincerely,
Morijah d’Hanguest
Ducal Chancellor
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#84 - 2013-12-21 17:04:27 UTC
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Since this is all out in public, would one of the chief participants or antagonists mind clearly explaining what the Casus Belli for this was?

What is the conflict over? Spilled tea? Improper bowing and gesticulating to the proper degree and direction? Using a picture of Jamyl as a hankerchief?

Or are there actual philosophical differences at play? Or merely retribution for some insults?

In the Name of the Lord


We deemed it necessary to declare war for the following reasons:

1.) Despite the lack of jurisdiction and competence Lord Admiral Lok’ri has accused Her Grace of heresy. While this would not concern us, since the institutions which usurp jurisdiction in the Empire do not exist in the Kingdom, we consider it to be an unprovoked attack by a supposedly allied (albeit schismatic) entity.

(The opinions expressed by Her Grace are not only always standing within the legitimate spectrum of the Khanid Orthodox Church, which remains independent from the churches of Amarr and is the true and complete continuation and preservation of that very church that Dano Gheinok founded, but are a shining example of clarity of thought and theological insight.)

2.) The lack of fulfilling the requirements to address Her Grace according to protocol and custom as established by the Book of Records under the entry of “Odelya of House d’Hanguest, Duchess of Palas” (and with the addition of “Hyperprotopansebastokratorissa” and “Porphyrogenita.”)

3.) A certain feeling of general disgust towards sycophancy, biased sophistry, arrogance, incompetence, the tendency to corrupt the innocent, shameless hypocrisy, and double-standards.

4.) Attempts of peaceful arbitration were made, but failed due to the unwillingness of PIE to open discussion: Not only is this war a war of self-defence against a guilty enemy, but all other means of putting an end to it have shown to be impractical.

Yours sincerely,
Morijah d’Hanguest
Ducal Chancellor

Anslo wrote:

So basically she had a ***** fit and couldn't stomp hard enough to get her side to do anything, so she used money to get someone to kick over a sand castle.


So.... yes.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#85 - 2013-12-21 17:54:26 UTC
Point 1) is legitimate. All the others sound highly volatile.
Zelarrs Elkoth
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#86 - 2013-12-21 18:57:44 UTC
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:

In the Name of the Lord


We deemed it necessary to declare war for the following reasons:

1.) Despite the lack of jurisdiction and competence Lord Admiral Lok’ri has accused Her Grace of heresy. While this would not concern us, since the institutions which usurp jurisdiction in the Empire do not exist in the Kingdom, we consider it to be an unprovoked attack by a supposedly allied (albeit schismatic) entity.

(The opinions expressed by Her Grace are not only always standing within the legitimate spectrum of the Khanid Orthodox Church, which remains independent from the churches of Amarr and is the true and complete continuation and preservation of that very church that Dano Gheinok founded, but are a shining example of clarity of thought and theological insight.)


Imperial subjects of all walks of life have been calling each other heretics for millenia. It is a duty of the faithful to recognize heresy, keep oneself clear of it, and call it out for question.

It is not the same as usurping the authority to declare someone a Heretic for all of the orthodoxy. I am surprised so many people, even good Amarrians, are confused on this subject.

Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:

2.) The lack of fulfilling the requirements to address Her Grace according to protocol and custom as established by the Book of Records under the entry of “Odelya of House d’Hanguest, Duchess of Palas” (and with the addition of “Hyperprotopansebastokratorissa” and “Porphyrogenita.”)


I (and I am sure others) would be more willing to give the benefit of any doubts, if her grace would accord the same respect for Amarrian institutions and holdings.

Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:

3.) A certain feeling of general disgust towards sycophancy, biased sophistry, arrogance, incompetence, the tendency to corrupt the innocent, shameless hypocrisy, and double-standards.


Charitable of you to see our side of the argument.

Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:

4.) Attempts of peaceful arbitration were made, but failed due to the unwillingness of PIE to open discussion: Not only is this war a war of self-defence against a guilty enemy, but all other means of putting an end to it have shown to be impractical.


Discussion has always been possible. True that we did reject arbitration, after discussing it with you, but that's a different thing.

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Captain, Head of Diplomacy, Recruiting Officer Contact on channel: "PIE Public" "I walk the razor's edge of embracing the future while protecting what we value of the past."

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#87 - 2013-12-21 21:16:27 UTC
Didn't these sorts of things used to be settled when a noble would throw a glove down on a table and we would have a trial by combat? Suddenly, after years of wondering about the barbarism of that system, suddenly I see why it was so necessary. Now, instead of two people fighting hopefully not to the death, Amarrian crewmen are dying to a mercenary force.

Why don't you both just take a battleship apiece and a form master to a spot of space and fight until one of you has taken the hull integrity of the other down to 50%? Crew losses would be minimal, it would only take one member of PIE out of the fight for the duration, nobody would have to pay any mercenaries.

It seems rather simple.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#88 - 2013-12-21 22:41:14 UTC
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:

2.) The lack of fulfilling the requirements to address Her Grace according to protocol and custom as established by the Book of Records under the entry of “Odelya of House d’Hanguest, Duchess of Palas” (and with the addition of “Hyperprotopansebastokratorissa” and “Porphyrogenita.”)


I have to be honest, I have no idea what a Hyperprotopansebastokratorissa is, but it sounds like a complex polymer variant involved in some sort of orbital industrial process.

If anybody called me a Porphyrogenital my first reaction would probably be to swing at them.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Morijah d'Hanguest
Ishtirak d'Hanguest
#89 - 2013-12-21 23:08:44 UTC
In the Name of the Lord


Dear Colonel,

Porphyrogenita, i.e. born into the purple—without the final “l”, Colonel.

Hyperprotopansebastekratorissa is not translatable into a single word, but you will easily understand its meaning: hyper, i.e. above; proto, i.e. first; pan, i.e. all; sebaste, i.e. venerable; kratorissa, i.e. ruler. Hyperprotopansebastekratorissa. Effortless.

Yours sincerely,
Morijah d’Hanguest
Ducal Chancellor
Erin Savonarola
Doomheim
#90 - 2013-12-21 23:40:59 UTC
A Holder that has to demand respect is no Holder.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#91 - 2013-12-22 00:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Silas Vitalia
This has become less interesting.

While I'm always for a little embarrassment at the expense of my True Amarr Brothers and Sisters in the Praetorians, this is starting to have the distinctive oder of the ridiculous.

I realize this might be hard to distinguish from Odeyla's typical funk, however.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#92 - 2013-12-22 01:19:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
I don't know, Vitalia.

Stormcrows are doing their silent bloodwork rather well, rather than posting. It's showing a fairly one sided 125:0 war report right now.

Katrina Oniseki

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#93 - 2013-12-22 02:00:18 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
I don't know, Vitalia.

Stormcrows are doing their silent bloodwork rather well, rather than posting. It's showing a fairly one sided 125:0 war report right now.

As the old saying goes, it's the quiet ones you need to worry about.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#94 - 2013-12-22 02:07:10 UTC
Personally, I think it's refreshing that they're skipping the hyperbole, and carrying out their contact. A mark of professionalism.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#95 - 2013-12-22 04:14:04 UTC
I would suggest we make a distinction from the Stormcrows going about their business rather professionally, and the ridiculousness I was referring to.

But on the other hand I applaud those involved for resorting to actual violence to settle a dispute, which can be a rarity among some IGSers.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Anslo
Scope Works
#96 - 2013-12-22 05:04:00 UTC
Sucks that they deploy on an earlier schedule than me....would be fun to see evolutionary tactics blossom in real time.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#97 - 2013-12-22 08:39:50 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
I don't know, Vitalia.

Stormcrows are doing their silent bloodwork rather well, rather than posting. It's showing a fairly one sided 125:0 war report right now.


Since you're keen to check the numbers, perhaps you could provide some context by comparing our losses to Stormcrows with the far greater value of both our victories against and losses to our primary focus: the Shakorites.

Also, how does the value of our losses compare to the expense of bankrolling this futile war against us?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#98 - 2013-12-22 10:50:44 UTC
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:

1.) Despite the lack of jurisdiction and competence Lord Admiral Lok’ri has accused Her Grace of heresy. While this would not concern us, since the institutions which usurp jurisdiction in the Empire do not exist in the Kingdom, we consider it to be an unprovoked attack by a supposedly allied (albeit schismatic) entity.


Question

But, the Duchess Odelya d'Hanguest, is a Heretic ?

She is not a Righteous True Believer, such as Myself, therefore is a heretic, yes ?

Question

Sincerely,

Synthia 1, Queen of Kaztropol.

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#99 - 2013-12-22 11:23:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Didn't these sorts of things used to be settled when a noble would throw a glove down on a table and we would have a trial by combat? Suddenly, after years of wondering about the barbarism of that system, suddenly I see why it was so necessary. Now, instead of two people fighting hopefully not to the death, Amarrian crewmen are dying to a mercenary force.

Why don't you both just take a battleship apiece and a form master to a spot of space and fight until one of you has taken the hull integrity of the other down to 50%? Crew losses would be minimal, it would only take one member of PIE out of the fight for the duration, nobody would have to pay any mercenaries.

It seems rather simple.


That is what I already said above, but even those days, people go through proper authorities - meaning, the Civil Court - to settle issues of that sort instead of resorting to trial by combat, which is why it is considered rather old fashioned and barbaric these days...

But in the case of freelance capsuleers, I guess this is the only decent option at hand.

Zelarrs Elkoth wrote:
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:

In the Name of the Lord


We deemed it necessary to declare war for the following reasons:

1.) Despite the lack of jurisdiction and competence Lord Admiral Lok’ri has accused Her Grace of heresy. While this would not concern us, since the institutions which usurp jurisdiction in the Empire do not exist in the Kingdom, we consider it to be an unprovoked attack by a supposedly allied (albeit schismatic) entity.

(The opinions expressed by Her Grace are not only always standing within the legitimate spectrum of the Khanid Orthodox Church, which remains independent from the churches of Amarr and is the true and complete continuation and preservation of that very church that Dano Gheinok founded, but are a shining example of clarity of thought and theological insight.)


Imperial subjects of all walks of life have been calling each other heretics for millenia. It is a duty of the faithful to recognize heresy, keep oneself clear of it, and call it out for question.

It is not the same as usurping the authority to declare someone a Heretic for all of the orthodoxy. I am surprised so many people, even good Amarrians, are confused on this subject.


Are PIE still living in caves or something ? At times it is no wonder that so many foreigner call the Amarr backward when reading such obscurantist tripe.
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-12-22 11:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Stalking Mantis
Zelarrs Elkoth wrote:



It is not the same as usurping the authority to declare someone a Heretic for all of the orthodoxy. I am surprised so many people, even good Amarrians, are confused on this subject.


This should be given much more attention than it sadly will get.

EVERYONE AND I MEAN EVERYONE should hold off on the 'your a heretic!' accusations.

Before going off onto a accusation of heresy ask yourself this:

Who has appointed you to speak on behalf of God when deciding who is and who isn't?

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread