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CSM Ripard Teg's "Gateway drug" blog
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Jove Death
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-12-21 19:45:10 UTC
In find there are numerous chinks in the Sandbox....

However most of these have been caused by us. The mind of EvE is actually run by people out there on different time zones. We are all different and we all have our own minds. CCP gave us a blank sandbox that we have created a thriving community of people from different languages and different cultures. The human mind is well as we all know changes daily and we reproduce this in game or what we call EvE.

I cannot explain how the human mind works but lets say im running a mission one day and I get blown up, or a friend in rl who has no experience of EvE gets blown up. What do you do?. Your mind can decript this and say well ok, ill carry on mission running or and this is the point... change my mind, dec them and go blow them up. If you think about it the core element of EvE is run by a daily average online of 40 thousand super computers. CCP tries to use this information and make the game work.

However this lately seems to be going off ot the left somewhere. See we have to remember CCP cannot control what our minds do but they can kerb stomp you if you do something wrong.

Lets take me as a noob player of 6 months. Before I joined as me Jove Death I was somebody else. I cannot go into this but I had experience of EvE well enough to know the game, its people and its mechanics. Therefore I knew what skills to train and I knew weaknesses and how to play the game. Throwing EvE at a person who has never played the game is a big bloody wake up call. They have no skills, no idea on how to play the game and no comprehension of what EvE is actually about except the extreme basic. Most people get boored atraight away of aura as even though some things are helpful I see friends I know who have joined and given up after a month because they cant get to grips with the game or making isk. They just dont understand. This isnt saying there thick they just dont know.

I saw a post the other day of somebody leaving thr game because they were scammed. Even though eula has a small amount of info on this it doesnt show how somebody can scam you. Altered markets, incorrect contracts etc. We can all point and lol but we know and they dont.

Other issues I see in the Sandbox is you CCP. I will not go into to much detail but you seem to be not you anymore.

4 years ago CCP's operation was extremly effective and it worked. If anything was done in game you resolved it with effectiveness and compasion.

Currently I think you are just sitting back and taking things easy. To a point your not even listening. Heres a few examples.

1 On this forum your happy so spam us when there's a downtime extension issue, but your to afraid to answer truthfully questions that have angered your player base.
1.a Somer should have been shut down with immidiate effect but you will not do this as its player driven. Its an exceptional way for you to make money as chars will buy plex out of game then use the isk in game to play somer. Then they run and spend more money on plex and put that into somer.
1.b With this in mind you shouldnt give anything to somer at all. They are making money for themselves as well as you.
1.c Other people in game deserve "free stuff" for there amazing contribution to the game without asking for anything.
1.d some of the high profile staff you have hired shouldnt have even got an interview as they havent a clue about the sandbox and the some that you have hired at just plain embarrasaing to your company.

2 Your customer service base is shocking and to be honest the time it takes for you to answer things regarding petitions is laughable. If your customer service was under ofcom your company would have been shut down due to massive fines.
2.a If you are proved wrong you get all ****** and defensive and either end the petition or give no helpful information at all to progress the petition.

Your NPE is completely wrong and in my mind you shouldnt have taken the starter skill set away a few years ago. To me it doesnt bother me as I knew what I was doing but to a NPE they havent a flippin clue. Offering the 17* trainer implant to all NPE implanted and not in station should be given as a automatic item. Yes it may increase the catalyst players but the balance would be negotiable.

More should be done not in the sandbox as thats built by us, but the surrounding structure. Forum questions answered, petitions fulfilled, CCP staff being more involved in game and not on there alts. Reverse your structure by 4 years and not the game then you will make hundreds if not thousands of chars happy to pay each month for you.

PS every new staff member must have a minimum of 5 years in game with provable chars, set ups and ways to make the game more better for the chars.

ps please excuse my rabble (not rant) to many minced pies and mulled wine plus this fedo is fookin me offBlink

Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek.
Cyber SGB
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-12-21 19:47:41 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Jasmin Natinde wrote:
Lmao like PvP can't be botted.
Eve, to me, is a game about relationships. You can't bot being a corporation, alliance, or coalition leader. You can't bot being an FC. You can't bot being a personality. The mechanics in this game are rather simple, it's the relationship between players, love or hate, that drives people to do insane things that tend to make the game look good and that tend to make people want to play the game.

This doesn't come out of shooting an NPC for the ten thousandth time or making some imaginary number go up. There are other games for that.


I hope you're not saying miners and mission runners can't develop relationships like the ship pvpers. There are players that enjoy running missions together. There are players that enjoy mining together. Hell, I imagine there are players that enjoy chatting while station trading and waiting on manufacturing jobs to finish. Big smile

One play style does not trump another. Everyone should understand this and stop trying to **** on someone elses play style. PVE needs a crap ton of work done on it.

Anyway, I do not believe you can just focus on pvp.

I write Kindle books. Visit my author page. http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2013-12-21 20:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
EI Digin wrote:
If you replaced every highsec player with an NPC, nothing would change. Except perhaps CCP wouldn't have as much money to waste on pie-in-the-sky projects.

How meaningful can you say your interactions are if you could literally be replaced with a bot?

And that still has to be done. Without botting as far as rules go.
I dunno about you, but I see a huge problem right there.

baltec1 wrote:
People don't join EVE on the tales of the PVE content.

Tales is the best thing about EVE, and the best way to represent it. Not rivaled by anything, including whatever they are representing, unfortunately.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#64 - 2013-12-21 20:04:08 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
EVE PvP wouldn't exist without people shooting an NPC for the ten thousandth time. EVE PVE is what keep this game afloat. If CCP invested in making EVE PVE and the PVE experience better, put in stuff like WIS and non combat related stuff they would have a lot more money to make the PvP content better.
No, it sounds like to me there would be a lot more money for the EVE PVE experience to be better, and that PVP doesn't matter because PVE will be making all of this imaginary money and there is more money to be made by putting even more money into PVE. Strange how these things tend to work.

I get a kick out of seriously entitled people who believe that their $15 a month means they get to decide how to design the game no matter what the consequence to other people. All of these completely fake and horribly transparent arguments about how they are funding the game.

Sorry friends, it's not true. You shouldn't get to change our universe, and the people who listen to you are shortsighted and completely wrong.

Do you want evidence? Tell me, how many MMOs have survived within the past ten years who have catered to the lowest common denominator. Every MMO that loses its focus and does not put resources into the mechanics that make it unique ends up dying a horrible death. Because those who want to change the game into something it isn't usually have fickle minds and jump ship the second something cooler comes out (Star Citizen, anyone? How about Elite? Maybe they'll fix X3 soon...), while at the same time ruining the game for the people who enjoyed its niche.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-12-21 20:09:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
EI Digin wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
EVE PvP wouldn't exist without people shooting an NPC for the ten thousandth time. EVE PVE is what keep this game afloat. If CCP invested in making EVE PVE and the PVE experience better, put in stuff like WIS and non combat related stuff they would have a lot more money to make the PvP content better.
No, it sounds like to me there would be a lot more money for the EVE PVE experience to be better, and that PVP doesn't matter because PVE will be making all of this imaginary money and there is more money to be made by putting even more money into PVE. Strange how these things tend to work.

I get a kick out of seriously entitled people who believe that their $15 a month means they get to decide how to design the game no matter what the consequence to other people. All of these completely fake and horribly transparent arguments about how they are funding the game.

Sorry friends, it's not true. You shouldn't get to change our universe, and the people who listen to you are shortsighted and completely wrong.

Do you want evidence? Tell me, how many MMOs have survived within the past ten years who have catered to the lowest common denominator. Every MMO that loses its focus and does not put resources into the mechanics that make it unique ends up dying a horrible death. Because those who want to change the game into something it isn't usually have fickle minds and jump ship the second something cooler comes out (Star Citizen, anyone? How about Elite? Maybe they'll fix X3 soon...), while at the same time ruining the game for the people who enjoyed its niche.

I enjoy both pvp and pve. When EVE was released it was released with a box, that I still have, it says on the box you can mission, mine, take over the universe, pirate, bounty hunte or "go it alone".

The only reason I bought the box, had to get it shipped all the way from the US, was that last line "go it alone".

EVE has always been PVE and PVP, and you used to be able to "go it alone" too. So its not about being entitled and trying to decide how to design the game. The game came designed that way. Its just been eroded over the years by the null sec crowd who have consistently pushed for less content for the majority and more content for the minority.

You have the issue ass end around I think.

Also I have spent thousands of dollars on subs, 10 years and I guess months of my personal time playing my character. That's a lot of investment in something that I can barely use for its original purpose.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#66 - 2013-12-21 20:13:24 UTC
Cyber SGB wrote:

I hope you're not saying miners and mission runners can't develop relationships like the ship pvpers. There are players that enjoy running missions together. There are players that enjoy mining together. Hell, I imagine there are players that enjoy chatting while station trading and waiting on manufacturing jobs to finish. Big smile


How meaningful is your interaction?

Would you risk your ship in order to save theirs? Probably not.

Would you form up a corp and go to a more dangerous place in space because you might possibly make more money? Probably not.

Would you try to get back at someone who is bothering them? You can't because the mechanics in which they subject themselves to make it so that it isn't worth your time to try to do something about it.

Talk is cheap.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#67 - 2013-12-21 20:14:32 UTC
Dust 514 needs more development that is for sure. just give it time it will grow and ccp needs to be on the ball. eve is doing well and the marketing has been huge. hitting the news a few times this year alone.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#68 - 2013-12-21 20:24:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

The only reason I bought the box, had to get it shipped all the way from the US, was that last line "go it alone".

EVE has always been PVE and PVP, and you used to be able to "go it alone" too. So its not about being entitled and trying to decide how to design the game. The game came designed that way. Its just been eroded over the years by the null sec crowd who have consistently pushed for less content for the majority and more content for the minority.
Uh, you can still go it alone? What are you talking about? You have been doing it, look at all of the money you've been making that you've been showing off about in other threads! When did it become not viable? Not to mention the fact that many, many people are doing it alone, right now!

No one is asking for that playstyle to go away. Some people are looking to have things rebalanced so that it is more fair for people who don't want to go it alone.

You are equating this request with the complete and utter annihilation of your playstyle, which is just wrong and a complete misrepresentation of what people are asking for. And you know it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#69 - 2013-12-21 20:25:58 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

The only reason I bought the box, had to get it shipped all the way from the US, was that last line "go it alone".

EVE has always been PVE and PVP, and you used to be able to "go it alone" too. So its not about being entitled and trying to decide how to design the game. The game came designed that way. Its just been eroded over the years by the null sec crowd who have consistently pushed for less content for the majority and more content for the minority.
Uh, you can still go it alone? What are you talking about? You have been doing it, look at all of the money you've been making that you've been showing off about in other threads! When did it become not viable? Not to mention the fact that many, many people are doing it alone, right now!

Oooooo snap

Solo vs blobber income: the reality

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-12-21 20:32:19 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Cyber SGB wrote:

I hope you're not saying miners and mission runners can't develop relationships like the ship pvpers. There are players that enjoy running missions together. There are players that enjoy mining together. Hell, I imagine there are players that enjoy chatting while station trading and waiting on manufacturing jobs to finish. Big smile


How meaningful is your interaction?

Would you risk your ship in order to save theirs? Probably not.

Would you form up a corp and go to a more dangerous place in space because you might possibly make more money? Probably not.

Would you try to get back at someone who is bothering them? You can't because the mechanics in which they subject themselves to make it so that it isn't worth your time to try to do something about it.

Talk is cheap.


very meaningful, my corp is full of chat an it keeps me going nigh 14 hours a day, we have a good balance of veteran and new players and have a good laugh, that to me means more than anything in a mmo

yes we would an plan to do so

yes i do an frequently an so does others in my corp


If it wasnt for my corp and the veteran players in it i would have probably left by now and definitely wouldnt have subbed up another 3 accounts
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#71 - 2013-12-21 20:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
EI Digin wrote:
Cyber SGB wrote:

I hope you're not saying miners and mission runners can't develop relationships like the ship pvpers. There are players that enjoy running missions together. There are players that enjoy mining together. Hell, I imagine there are players that enjoy chatting while station trading and waiting on manufacturing jobs to finish. Big smile


How meaningful is your interaction?

Would you risk your ship in order to save theirs? Probably not.

Would you form up a corp and go to a more dangerous place in space because you might possibly make more money? Probably not.

Would you try to get back at someone who is bothering them? You can't because the mechanics in which they subject themselves to make it so that it isn't worth your time to try to do something about it.

Talk is cheap.


El Digin in six words: Play my way or go away.

Meaningful is what makes you pay CCP for their services.

In that sense, EVE is becoming increasingly meaningless to non-players, and in a Google Trends literal way.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#72 - 2013-12-21 21:05:25 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
El Digin in six words: Play my way or go away.
You might like saying about how I want people to play my way and feel smug about spouting a buzzword, but in actuality giving players practical immunity from consequence has effects that ripple through the universe.

And who is effected by this the most?

New players, who are trying the game out for the first time but have their income sources limited by and get zero advice from veterans who are just interested in farming and providing zero content for anyone but themselves. New players can't do anything about it, including teaming up and providing the consequences to veteran players actions, because of veterans practical immunity from PVP.

It turns people off the game, because in a game where you should be able to do anything, you are limited to the fact that someone is able to game the mechanics to make them immune from consequence, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you are also a veteran player. Think of how many new players the game has churned through to have a PCU count so low after such a long time.

And guess what, PVP provides people reasons to group and and make friends. Friends tend to make people subscribe and play this game for long periods of time, especially if you have a shared bond which makes your relationship meaningful, instead of just a glorified chat channel.

Don't you want CCP to make lots of money? Or are you interested in your entitlement into making the game better for you, no matter what the cost?

And you're saying that I want people to play my way or go away?
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-12-21 21:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhes
EI Digin wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

The only reason I bought the box, had to get it shipped all the way from the US, was that last line "go it alone".

EVE has always been PVE and PVP, and you used to be able to "go it alone" too. So its not about being entitled and trying to decide how to design the game. The game came designed that way. Its just been eroded over the years by the null sec crowd who have consistently pushed for less content for the majority and more content for the minority.
Uh, you can still go it alone? What are you talking about? You have been doing it, look at all of the money you've been making that you've been showing off about in other threads! When did it become not viable? Not to mention the fact that many, many people are doing it alone, right now!

No one is asking for that playstyle to go away. Some people are looking to have things rebalanced so that it is more fair for people who don't want to go it alone.

You are equating this request with the complete and utter annihilation of your playstyle, which is just wrong and a complete misrepresentation of what people are asking for. And you know it.


Infinity's idea of "going it alone" is to be able to destroy nullsec structures by himself with no reinforcement timers.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Alexis Machine
#74 - 2013-12-21 21:11:18 UTC
I've been here since beta 2002. I've been solo damn near the entire time. I've flown with friends, and over the years I've had several accounts and have dabbled in several aspects of the game, but I'd estimate 80% of the my time has been spent alone. That doesn't mean I fly around ignoring the world. I frequent several chat channels, and I interact with people in local all the time... depending on the situation of course... I just don't find any enjoyment in blobs, ganks, or all the peen waving that goes on in most of the "group" activities. I don't disagree with any of it. I just personally don't get any enjoyment out of it. Straight But to each his own! If that's your thing then by all means, do what makes you smile. I can tell you, with 10 years experience, you can play this game solo and have a blast. You just have to play it differently. That doesn't mean live in a bubble and ignore the world around you! Just wanted to get that out there. Smile


For the past 2 years I've only had this one account. I don't even fly with a scout alt anymore. These days I'm mostly just doing exploration. I like it a lot. Even the new mini-game and containers and stuff. I still have fun. But... I open the launcher and close it 3 or 4 times before I log in. The community, and the developers aren't what they used to be. The community is so focused on being a **** heads, anyone trying to have a genuine game mechanic debate just closes their browser in disgust. Or starts acting like the herd and it becomes post after post of stupidity. I get it. It's fun being like that. Tears taste great, and getting reactions out of people is funny. But come the **** on guys. There's a huge, and important difference between "in-game tear harvesting" and "just being a ******* ****".

I read the forums, I'm in several chat channels, I watch local... the community is terrible. We've always liked to rate ourselves as the "hard core" or the "harsh" or whatever, but the past 5 years has steadily gone sour. I don't know why, and I have no possible solutions, but I ask people IRL all the time if they've heard of Eve. Most haven't, but the ones that have tried it have all quit. Either because "OMGPVP" or because "People were jerks". And I question them, and I've discovered the ones that say people are jerks, well they don't mind the harshness or the pvp. They literally mean, the player-base is made up of a bunch of middle-school mentality ass clowns. If the current player-base could differentiate between being "harsh" and being "a stupid child", then these people would probably be playing today. The other group.. well. No one wants them here, and they wouldn't stay regardless.

CCP can't do anything about that, other than strict policing.. No one wants that. WE are the only ones that can fix that problem. As far as the NGE goes... I have no idea how to fix it. lol Can it even be fixed? I don't know. But I do know this much: It doesn't matter how good the game is if you're playing with a bunch of twats. Blink
Cyber SGB
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-12-21 21:29:59 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
El Digin in six words: Play my way or go away.
You might like saying about how I want people to play my way and feel smug about spouting a buzzword, but in actuality giving players practical immunity from consequence has effects that ripple through the universe.

And who is effected by this the most?

New players, who are trying the game out for the first time but have their income sources limited by and get zero advice from veterans who are just interested in farming and providing zero content for anyone but themselves. New players can't do anything about it, including teaming up and providing the consequences to veteran players actions, because of veterans practical immunity from PVP.

It turns people off the game, because in a game where you should be able to do anything, you are limited to the fact that someone is able to game the mechanics to make them immune from consequence, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you are also a veteran player. Think of how many new players the game has churned through to have a PCU count so low after such a long time.

And guess what, PVP provides people reasons to group and and make friends. Friends tend to make people subscribe and play this game for long periods of time, especially if you have a shared bond which makes your relationship meaningful, instead of just a glorified chat channel.

Don't you want CCP to make lots of money? Or are you interested in your entitlement into making the game better for you, no matter what the cost?

And you're saying that I want people to play my way or go away?


Some nice propaganda you are spouting off there. So, now, it's the miners, mission runners, and industrial corporations that are running off new players?

How are new players getting their income sources limited?

I see veterans giving new players advice all the time. So, I guess you like to make things up.

You know, mining, mission running, industry, research, and trading gives people reasons to make friends.

Oh, and I will quote you on this. El Digin wrote: "Sorry friends, it's not true. You shouldn't get to change our universe, and the people who listen to you are shortsighted and completely wrong."

It appears that you somehow believe the game is yours. So, play my way, or go away, is really what you believe, right?

I write Kindle books. Visit my author page. http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#76 - 2013-12-21 21:56:08 UTC
Cyber SGB wrote:
Some nice propaganda you are spouting off there. So, now, it's the miners, mission runners, and industrial corporations that are running off new players?

How are new players getting their income sources limited?
When older players introduce more minerals, items, LP, what have you, they provide more "supply" which could otherwise be fulfilled by new players. When you have ongoing 24/7 farming operations by veterans at an extremely high efficiency it makes it difficult for a new player to make decent enough money because now they have to compete with these veterans. And the only way to compete is to skill up for months/years.

It really is Economics 101, and understanding that your actions have consequences in this world, no matter what you do.

Cyber SGB wrote:

I see veterans giving new players advice all the time. So, I guess you like to make things up.
Not enough, because there are so many people who are having issues with the NPE. That's what this whole thread is about!

Cyber SGB wrote:

You know, mining, mission running, industry, research, and trading gives people reasons to make friends.
No it doesn't, you can do all of this solo without any help whatsoever. In fact, it's beneficial to never ever talk to anyone about these kind of activities or work with anyone else. That's why ISBoxer and multiple accounts are so popular, now you don't have to trust anyone else because you can just do it all by yourself.

Cyber SGB wrote:

Oh, and I will quote you on this. El Digin wrote: "Sorry friends, it's not true. You shouldn't get to change our universe, and the people who listen to you are shortsighted and completely wrong."

It appears that you somehow believe the game is yours. So, play my way, or go away, is really what you believe, right?
Go read the context of the quote instead of cherry picking what I have to say. Again, you're more interested in spouting the company line to make your situation better instead of making the game better as a whole.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2013-12-21 22:29:28 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
El Digin in six words: Play my way or go away


You in six words: Change the mechanics to suit the way I play even if it comes at the expense of everyone who doesn't

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2013-12-21 22:38:24 UTC
Wardecs and suicide ganking aren't preventing EVE from growing more, fyi. It's the monthly fee: for whatever reason, people prefer playing freemium games over sub games.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#79 - 2013-12-21 22:40:02 UTC
Rhes wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

The only reason I bought the box, had to get it shipped all the way from the US, was that last line "go it alone".

EVE has always been PVE and PVP, and you used to be able to "go it alone" too. So its not about being entitled and trying to decide how to design the game. The game came designed that way. Its just been eroded over the years by the null sec crowd who have consistently pushed for less content for the majority and more content for the minority.
Uh, you can still go it alone? What are you talking about? You have been doing it, look at all of the money you've been making that you've been showing off about in other threads! When did it become not viable? Not to mention the fact that many, many people are doing it alone, right now!

No one is asking for that playstyle to go away. Some people are looking to have things rebalanced so that it is more fair for people who don't want to go it alone.

You are equating this request with the complete and utter annihilation of your playstyle, which is just wrong and a complete misrepresentation of what people are asking for. And you know it.


Infinity's idea of "going it alone" is to be able to destroy nullsec structures by himself with no reinforcement timers.

Ooooooooooo

Soloing a TCU, how gutsy

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2013-12-21 22:43:12 UTC
Jove Death wrote:
In find there are numerous chinks in the Sandbox....

That's racist bro...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)