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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

First post First post
Author
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1061 - 2013-12-21 00:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"Hey guys I found an Estamel rat which dropped a modified invuln field that I sold for 18b on market. It took me 10 minutes to kill the rat.
Clearly this means you can make over 100b/hour easy. You guys aren't even trying."


because there's no floor to the income, right.

we all know there is only two outcomes for farming in nullsec. you either find an este invuln or you don't. the only two possibilities in the eve universe.

The third is you don't go to nullsec, look up possible drops on the EvE wiki and then tell everyone you find these every time.

There's a lot of this completely pointless third option and we're here trying to work out why.


yes because finding 15 intact armor plates in a single relic can is totally impossible it would have an undue effect on the market Roll

for me the "big drops" account for maybe 10% of the total income. the rest is just the baseline floor of being in nullsec and doing any and all easy, fast content spawns that can give quick boosts of 20m (unlucky) -500m+

using mobile depots to fit on-demand for easy and high-profit content you find is totally impossible. mobile depots dont even exist. wait. what?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1062 - 2013-12-21 00:27:12 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
yes because finding 15 intact armor plates in a single relic can is totally impossible it would have an undue effect on the market Roll

There you go with the strawman arguments again.

He's saying it would if you found them in every single can.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1063 - 2013-12-21 00:29:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
yes because finding 15 intact armor plates in a single relic can is totally impossible it would have an undue effect on the market Roll

There you go with the strawman arguments again.

He's saying it would if you found them in every single can.


And the alternative is finding zero, I suppose.

Aftter all, finding anything means you just won the lottery, right?

Since winning the lottery is by definition impossible, we have the logical conclusion that it is 100% impossible to find any loot in nullsec.

I am liking this logic.
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1064 - 2013-12-21 00:43:30 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
yes because finding 15 intact armor plates in a single relic can is totally impossible it would have an undue effect on the market Roll

There you go with the strawman arguments again.

He's saying it would if you found them in every single can.


And the alternative is finding zero, I suppose.

Aftter all, finding anything means you just won the lottery, right?

Since winning the lottery is by definition impossible, we have the logical conclusion that it is 100% impossible to find any loot in nullsec.

I am liking this logic.

The loot fairy is a cruel, capricious, sprite, she is. All should bow before the Random Number God, and his herald the Loot fairy.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#1065 - 2013-12-21 00:55:11 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Since winning the lottery is by definition impossible

is it now
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1066 - 2013-12-21 00:56:18 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
But I already showed you my 5bil per hour highsec income which is more QuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestion

I still think that's the bigger problem.

Your 5 bil was nonsense though. Mine is real :)

I applied the same logic you did:

- Took a sample of one
- Extrapolated
- Ignored market effects
- Came up with a big number

The reason mine is impossible is the same reason yours is impossible. Gagh, kinda sucks huh?

What your missing is:

- have provided no proof that your 5 billion is even plausible
- have provided no proof if plausible that it is consistently repeatable
- have ignored the fact that a small minority of people in null feed high end mods to a large number of people outside of null
- came up with a fake number

I on the other hand

- have provided screen shots that my income is plausible
- have provided screen shots that my income is consistently repeatable (or I'm the most lucky person on earth)
- have no ignored the fact that as a null sec plexer I'm a small minority that feeds high end mods to a large number of people outside of null
- have actual real provable numbers (check my alt contracts L Dopa, Rasta Danyel for contractable loots)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1067 - 2013-12-21 00:57:34 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Since winning the lottery is by definition impossible

is it now

Well according to Pinky it is, therfore it is true. Attention

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#1068 - 2013-12-21 01:10:07 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
That "vague reference" would be to previous posts where it was discussed in significantly greater detail.
Not our fault you "missed" them.


if it's the "if it is valuable than you couldn't have found it because otherwise it wouldn't be valuable" argument, then it's ignored because it's a ******* dumb strawman.

maybe the reason you don't find good loot is that you invent for yourself infinite excuses to not look for it.

"i'll never find it."

"i'm not allowed to farm in that space."

"i'd rather do repetitive missions in highsec"

"the system could not support every single person in the game farming it at the same time. that means i should not be in this system."

"i have a false sense of morals and feel the need to pay strangers for the privilege to farm random spawns even though I could just walk in and do it anyways without paying anybody."

"i am trolling on the forums and want to keep people out of my profitable nullsec space. and feel that this is an effective means."


The purpose of null is to be worth taking possession of and fighting over. Not to be a sig repository for a finite number of roaming probers rotating a finite number of sigs amongst themselves, which is known to be a smaller population than the actual number of nullsec systems at any one time because systems like mine provide sufficient sigs for 1 prober per day, and don't get anywhere near sufficient sigs for 24x7 someone active, let alone concentration into 1 TZ for defensive relevance.

Whilst I was unsuprised to find when I moved out here (and in fact planned on it working that way), that the system works as it does, it doesn't mean that I have to think that its *right*.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1069 - 2013-12-21 01:18:34 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

What your missing is:

- have provided no proof that your 5 billion is even plausible
- have provided no proof if plausible that it is consistently repeatable
- have ignored the fact that a small minority of people in null feed high end mods to a large number of people outside of null
- came up with a fake number

I on the other hand

- have provided screen shots that my income is plausible
- have provided screen shots that my income is consistently repeatable (or I'm the most lucky person on earth)
- have no ignored the fact that as a null sec plexer I'm a small minority that feeds high end mods to a large number of people outside of null
- have actual real provable numbers (check my alt contracts L Dopa, Rasta Danyel for contractable loots)

What you haven't done:
Taken into account time spent looking for the sites, taking the loot to market, time spent doing sites that resulted in poor loot drops, etc.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#1070 - 2013-12-21 01:30:37 UTC
If I screenshot my Aeon docked in Jita 4-4, can we move past the idea that screenshots are proof of anything? This is even ignoring the fact your screenshots don't show how that loot arrived in your hangar, just "Like one site honest" and apparently we just accept that.

Jesus wept.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#1071 - 2013-12-21 01:37:04 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
- have provided no proof if plausible that it is consistently repeatable

Well, we know yours definately isn't, since if items dropped in the quantity you're claiming the price would be rather less.
Quote:
have ignored the fact that a small minority of people in null feed high end mods to a large number of people outside of null

That's not how markets work. That's not even moderately how they work. Not to mention this is a claim you have made up to support numbers you have made up .. so [CITATION NEEDED] all around.
Quote:
came up with a fake number

Yes. I was following your sage wisdom on the matter. The truth is simply the largest number you can make up!
Quote:
have provided screen shots that my income is plausible

A photograph of a winning lottery ticket isn't proof it would be repeatable.
Quote:
have provided screen shots that my income is consistently repeatable

No evidence of timescale was given. We're not suggesting that you can't get faction/deadspace loot at all, just the rate and repeatability of it.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1072 - 2013-12-21 01:37:25 UTC
Several posts just pointlessly disappeared.
Expect ISD to be along shortly to explain why non-rule breaking posts quoting nobody had to be deleted.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1073 - 2013-12-21 01:41:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Several posts just pointlessly disappeared.
Expect ISD to be along shortly to explain why non-rule breaking posts quoting nobody had to be deleted.

Good. There's a lot of straw around and it takes a fire to get it all out
Khanh'rhh wrote:
A photograph of a winning lottery ticket isn't proof it would be repeatable.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1074 - 2013-12-21 01:43:52 UTC
Oh Christ I was on the first page. Nevermind.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1075 - 2013-12-21 01:59:31 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Oh Christ I was on the first page. Nevermind.

Oh boy, we've come ~so far~ since the first page, in understanding

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#1076 - 2013-12-21 02:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Khanh'rhh wrote:

No evidence of timescale was given. We're not suggesting that you can't get faction/deadspace loot at all, just the rate and repeatability of it.


Ziona has 10 accounts, and is using 3 accounts for sig running. ie 2 pilots in sig (at least 1 a droneboat to keep effort down) and then scout out finding more sigs.

its not per account income, and its pretty easily matched with 3 accounts in missions. Obviously to keep the sig rate up that consumes a lot of systems worth of sigs, hence the desire to have a bunch of bomber accounts on demand to deal with local resistance from other probers to maintain access to systems to get sigs.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#1077 - 2013-12-21 02:03:13 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1078 - 2013-12-21 02:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Tauranon wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

No evidence of timescale was given. We're not suggesting that you can't get faction/deadspace loot at all, just the rate and repeatability of it.


Ziona has 10 accounts, and is using 3 accounts for sig running. ie 2 pilots in sig (at least 1 a droneboat to keep effort down) and then scout out finding more sigs.

its not per account income, and its pretty easily matched with 3 accounts in missions. Obviously to keep the sig rate up that consumes a lot of systems worth of sigs, hence the desire to have a bunch of bomber accounts on demand to deal with local resistance from other probers to maintain access to systems to get sigs.

No I run combat sites with one ship. I scout with another account - Rasta in a Cheetah or Loki, use him for scanning relic and datas for faction bpc's as well as ghost sites if he's in the Loki. Dopa is my smartbomb guy / L4 mission booster / Trader, I park him in relic and data's and he smartbombs explorers. He got killed today so you can check what he uses lol, hardly a combat site running ship. The other accounts are training up to be stealth bombers.

No idea why people just decide to make stuff up :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1079 - 2013-12-21 02:18:00 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

No evidence of timescale was given. We're not suggesting that you can't get faction/deadspace loot at all, just the rate and repeatability of it.


Ziona has 10 accounts, and is using 3 accounts for sig running. ie 2 pilots in sig (at least 1 a droneboat to keep effort down) and then scout out finding more sigs.

its not per account income, and its pretty easily matched with 3 accounts in missions. Obviously to keep the sig rate up that consumes a lot of systems worth of sigs, hence the desire to have a bunch of bomber accounts on demand to deal with local resistance from other probers to maintain access to systems to get sigs.

Sheesh, 10 accounts is pretty hardcore.

Ok, IZ you win, I can't multibox like that

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1080 - 2013-12-21 02:24:50 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

No evidence of timescale was given. We're not suggesting that you can't get faction/deadspace loot at all, just the rate and repeatability of it.


Ziona has 10 accounts, and is using 3 accounts for sig running. ie 2 pilots in sig (at least 1 a droneboat to keep effort down) and then scout out finding more sigs.

its not per account income, and its pretty easily matched with 3 accounts in missions. Obviously to keep the sig rate up that consumes a lot of systems worth of sigs, hence the desire to have a bunch of bomber accounts on demand to deal with local resistance from other probers to maintain access to systems to get sigs.

Sheesh, 10 accounts is pretty hardcore.

Ok, IZ you win, I can't multibox like that

lol they're only a month old. I got them because now I'm doing plexes I can afford them. No more real life money, pay for them all with plex bought from the sites.

On the up side I killed a Goonwaffe with two of them the other day so going well. I'm pretty bad at the ISBoxer thing still but getting better.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)