Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That is easy.

A useful scenario OTHER THAN the two obvious ones where the reload time is irrelevant (suicide ganking and 1v1 PvP against frigate sized targets).

Bouh,

You know there is more to the game than suicide ganking and 1v1. Don't pretend like you don't.

Hm.. so i provide solo KM's like you mentioned, but now suddenly, they aren't good enough. You never specified exactly what these should be achieving. Just that you're not really seeing any KM's.



Interesting... so you agree with me that damage trumps RoF bonus. You have an ONI that provides 25%-50% damage bonus to missiles, but now you're not interested because the ScyFI gets 50% bonus for all missile types. True, but like i previously pointed out, the ONI has much better tank/utility than ScyFI. There is always a trade-off. But, i mean, a 10% kinetic bonus is nice.. i mean there just aren't wolfs/claws/stilletos/drams/daredevils or any other variation of frigate that doesn't have a massive kinetic hole. Except for gallente frigs.. which oh no, guess you should just pack up now, i mean its not like you're getting a 25% dmg bonus regardless to your other missiles.

Everyone's implied insults about turret users is pretty funny though, such poor thought put into some of the responses. I started as a turret user, but i'm training into missiles.. yet it seems people think that i somehow want missiles nerfed into the ground. Just to be clear, that is not the case. Why would i want a weapon system that i'm training into be nerfed? However, once people started mouthing off about RLML/RHML, i started doing my own testing, and found them to be useable, as long as you build your fit around them. So did my doing my own research and building up fits that actually work strike a nerve?

Let me ask everyone here something. Lets just use my vagabond as an example, or hell a stabber. Stabber is a lightly tanked ship a majority of the time. You jump a gate, to find a 10-15man frigate gang. You know you're faster than most of them. What would you do?

A. burn off gate and make them chase you, picking off what you can before the rest of the gang gets to you?

B. warp off, get them to chase you, and kill them individually so as to avoid the blob?

C. burn straight into them and try and brawl them down?

Now, when you're solo, you are almost always outnumbered. So, for the case of RLML, how does this differ from the same tactics used when i'm in a turret ship? I get 1-2 kills and them i'm out, due to incoming blob. But, no, for some reason, people don't see that, just that i'm "ganking" someone in 1v1. When its not a real 1v1, its a fight i setup to get them away from their blob and kill them before the rest lands. Thats called divide and conquer, something RLML boats do very well.

Why would i put myself in a situation where i could be killed during the reload? That's just stupid and not using your brain. I am working with the mechanics provided, why would i knowingly put myself into a situation that i know i would die from?

Stitch, as a culprit of the insults against turret pilots I would like to mention that I am not including all turret pilots in that. Just the ones that like to invade a missile forum pointing fingers at missile pilots and raising the OP flag when we ask for certain missile buffs.
You have agreed with most of our points, although not all of the fixes, in regards to damage application so I do not include you in this category. You have a difference of opinion that is welcome and necessary to have any reasonable form of discourse. Other people however are not so reasonable and shift their arguments from page to page with no visible point other than to raise the ire of missile pilots and creating a bed for such insults to grow.
The thread "the great missile debate" is where I have migrated to in an effort to discuss missiles in general and to keep my off-topic ideas out of this more specialized forum.
On topic, you have raised the point that the Rapid series can be usable in the right situation, which is the same for just about every weapon system, but I still believe that it was rolled out much to quickly by CCP. FOr whatever reason our opinions were sought out, disregarded, and they were shoved down our throats with the message to deal with it. A few weeks of testing would have quickly shown that the reload time could use with a little shaving, and that ammunition switching should be much faster, and these changes could have been discussed and incorporated in a much less heated way prior to the rollout of the system.
I also believe that the new Rapid series should not have automatically replaced the existing Rapid system, which would provide the different choices that CCP, allegedly, wanted to create for missile pilots. This duality of systems could have been evaluated on SiSi and Tranquility, discussed in a forum, and an agreement could be reached had CCP not used brute force to put a broken mechanic in place to make the deadline and then switch to something else.
Possibly CCP needs to reevaluate their time table for the balancing they want to do.

What if it's a RoF-bonused (maybe damage bonus would be better) cruiser with 3x BCU I and you set your RLMLs on overheat before you begin firing?

I mean, I could probably answer that myself in EFT, but I wanted to publicly suggest the notion as well.

So basically the point is that RLMLs might be good for more than just a few specific situations, but if they are then none of those situations have been found yet and therefore probably don't occur often enough for serious consideration.

Right?

PvE is out, suicide ganking is probably a losing proposition - and we've only seen very limited success in PvP. I can't imagine these would fare any better in wormholes, and since missiles aren't used in fleet actions anyway…


The whole concept of ganking with cruisers is irrelevant, because you're either going to use Catalysts (cheap) or Tornados if it's a really expensive target. In ganking you either lock them down or alpha them, so neither the lead time or range work for you.

A couple of comments on earlier stuff further up the thread.

- people with these things already fitted to a ship are likely to keep using them for a fair bit, its a bit early to judge the effect of the changes

- the assumption that the reload delay can/should be the same as RHML is unfounded, they are two different weapon systems and what is acceptable in a battleship fight with RHML may not be acceptable for RLML. Intuitively you would have expected if RHML were balanced with a 40 second reload then RLML should be set to 20 or 30 seconds to get the same effect in game.

I'm still not convinced that RLMLs are viable for banking.


With all due respect, most of us have been using and continually testing them for the past month. They are simply not feasible as a primary weapon system, nor will they work for PvE (missions will take an order of magnitude longer). PvP applications are extremely limited as well.

Ishtar
Stabber Fleet Issue
AC Harbinger
...