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So I got Concorded Last Night
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Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#41 - 2013-12-18 18:48:53 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:


Wrecks are owned by the person who's running the mission.


By my dictionary, running the mission means doing the killing, which is different than pulling the mission, or owning the mission itself. Blink

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2013-12-18 19:06:02 UTC
Seriously... Do so many people really struggle to understand aggression in Crimewatch?

In fleet you can loot wreck and containers belonging to another fleet member without going suspect. If you shoot wreck or containers that does not belong to you concord will come and punish you, even if those wrecks belong to a fleet member.

That being said... why is your safety set to red in highsec if you are not suiciding people?

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#43 - 2013-12-18 19:11:24 UTC
Ambassador Crane wrote:
The wrecks are yours.



No they aren't

This was determined at length in another post entitled "Why Salvagers are actually pirates and i should be allowed to shoot them" or something

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Notorious Fellon
#44 - 2013-12-18 19:16:51 UTC
The fact that when in a fleet doing a mission, you can loot any wreck your fleet created, and salvage any wreck you created without repercussion it is odd that you cannot shoot any wrecks you created.

It causes confusion with new players.

If there is one thing EVE needs; it is making the game more understandable to new players.

Letting fleet members shoot wrecks caused by those fleet members creating said wrecks is a simple fix. Too bad we are not likely to ever see that change.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#45 - 2013-12-18 19:33:05 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:


If there is one thing EVE needs; it is making the game more understandable to new players.


I would rather have to buy a small box with a crank on it that I have to constant turn to stay alive than make the game more understandable to new players

I would rather eat a turkey sandwich where the turkey was a little dry than make the game more understandable to new players

I would rather be Baron Harokken's wrestling buddy than make the game more understandable to new players

I would rather...... (your turn)

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#46 - 2013-12-18 19:36:41 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
The fact that when in a fleet doing a mission, you can loot any wreck your fleet created, and salvage any wreck you created without repercussion it is odd that you cannot shoot any wrecks you created.

If there is one thing EVE needs; it is making the game more understandable to new players.


New players not understanding is not the problem. I'm a vet by any definition and I was still surprised to hear that wrecks generated by shooting an NPC are not yours if the mission was pulled by someone else. Crimewatch 2.0 is a fantastic improvement over the old system, but it still has a few holes in it.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-12-18 19:36:58 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Ambassador Crane wrote:
The wrecks are yours.



No they aren't

This was determined at length in another post entitled "Why Salvagers are actually pirates and i should be allowed to shoot them" or something


when it comes to shooting them they are. you can shoot your own wrecks but not someone elses.

yes you can salvage any wreck but we are talking about shooting them here
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#48 - 2013-12-18 19:41:22 UTC
Lady Naween wrote:


when it comes to shooting them they are. you can shoot your own wrecks but not someone elses.

yes you can salvage any wreck but we are talking about shooting them here


Why would you even bother?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Notorious Fellon
#49 - 2013-12-18 19:45:19 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
The fact that when in a fleet doing a mission, you can loot any wreck your fleet created, and salvage any wreck you created without repercussion it is odd that you cannot shoot any wrecks you created.

If there is one thing EVE needs; it is making the game more understandable to new players.


New players not understanding is not the problem. I'm a vet by any definition and I was still surprised to hear that wrecks generated by shooting an NPC are not yours if the mission was pulled by someone else. Crimewatch 2.0 is a fantastic improvement over the old system, but it still has a few holes in it.



That is certainly fair. I was also surprised that fleeting doesn't give full control over wrecks. I was a few clicks from getting Concorded myself apparently.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#50 - 2013-12-18 20:16:15 UTC
1. You didn't bother to read up on the basic mechanics of EvE.
2. You are running around with your safety off in highsec, again, basic understanding of the game.

So, why would you turn your safety off, with out understanding the ramifications?

Eve is a complex game, and it's 1000 times less complex than it was five years ago. If you can't be bothered to read up on the game, it will be a long, hard learning experience.

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-12-18 20:53:37 UTC
If I understood correctly:

Player A accepted the mission.
Player B does all the killing, looting and salvaging.
Player B then goes on to shoot the container that were created from HIM salvaging HIS wrecks.
Player B gets concorded.

Yes, sounds like you should petition it.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#52 - 2013-12-18 22:33:18 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
If I understood correctly:

Player A accepted the mission.
Player B does all the killing, looting and salvaging.
Player B then goes on to shoot the container that were created from HIM salvaging HIS wrecks.
Player B gets concorded.

Yes, sounds like you should petition it.


Agreed. It makes no sense that the wrecks and/or cans that you make belong to someone else and can get you concorded. Not only that, but the game client shows them white, which is completely wrong. In this case, the only thing the white color is showing you is that you can loot without getting suspect flag. But you get concordokken for popping them? Makes no sense at all.

Hell, I might even classify this as a bug. Definitely petition.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-12-18 22:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Soldarius wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
If I understood correctly:

Player A accepted the mission.
Player B does all the killing, looting and salvaging.
Player B then goes on to shoot the container that were created from HIM salvaging HIS wrecks.
Player B gets concorded.

Yes, sounds like you should petition it.


Agreed. It makes no sense that the wrecks and/or cans that you make belong to someone else and can get you concorded. Not only that, but the game client shows them white, which is completely wrong. In this case, the only thing the white color is showing you is that you can loot without getting suspect flag. But you get concordokken for popping them? Makes no sense at all.

Hell, I might even classify this as a bug. Definitely petition.



Agreed ... with one small proviso:

Allowing random griefers passing through to destroy any mission completion loot drops (the Damsel etc) without consequence may cause a few issues of its own.

EDIT: On retrospect the issue here would actually be the other way around. The problem occurs if someone ninjas into your mission and destroys the objective LCO. Can you no longer loot the mission objective cargo container?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#54 - 2013-12-19 16:31:47 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:


Agreed ... with one small proviso:

Allowing random griefers passing through to destroy any mission completion loot drops (the Damsel etc) without consequence may cause a few issues of its own.

EDIT: On retrospect the issue here would actually be the other way around. The problem occurs if someone ninjas into your mission and destroys the objective LCO. Can you no longer loot the mission objective cargo container?


True, but they can already just steal it.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Effect One
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-12-19 16:35:08 UTC
Hope Alar wrote:
Both of my characters are in different corporations.


Tactical error, sir!

'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#56 - 2013-12-19 19:44:42 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Were your two characters in the same fleet?


For missions it doesn't matter, from what i rememebr the wrecks of mission rats will always belong to the owner of the mission, for you to even get concorded would require you to have safeties set to red and to have already suppressed the warning message, green safeties are there to protect you :)
Oraac Ensor
#57 - 2013-12-19 20:45:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Callic Veratar wrote:
Wrecks are owned by the person who's running the mission.

Cypherous wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Were your two characters in the same fleet?


For missions it doesn't matter, from what i rememebr the wrecks of mission rats will always belong to the owner of the mission, for you to even get concorded would require you to have safeties set to red and to have already suppressed the warning message, green safeties are there to protect you :)

Wrecks (and therefore also any cans left after salvaging the wrecks) are owned by the character that produced them.

I've done a few missions with two of my characters in different (NPC) corps but fleeted together.

In every case the wrecks were yellow to the character that didn't do the killing.

So Sipphakta's analysis is correct.

Petition it.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#58 - 2013-12-19 23:49:36 UTC
Wrecks are white, because Fleet members may loot. That you cannot shoot them has no visual queue and would require you to press Show Info on each and every one of them, kind of a pain. I am unsure as to what happens to abandoned wrecks though.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#59 - 2013-12-20 00:11:43 UTC
Pandora Barzane wrote:
petition it.

I had exactly the same years ago when I started doing L4's. Friend of mine was doing L4's, I came to help in my brand spanking new abaddon. So we fleeted.

A salvage ninja showed up, and friend started to shoot the wrecks, I then also started to shoot, and got concorded.

Petitioned it, and next day I got my abaddon returned.

only the person doing the mission is allowed to shoot the wrecks, yeah I know, ccp logic.



Weak.
Of you to petition a loss that was your own fault and of CCP for giving the ship back to you.



That ship should never have been reimbursed.

So yeah as you said , ccp logic........

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Oraac Ensor
#60 - 2013-12-20 03:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Wrecks are white, because Fleet members may loot.

So how come my characters' wrecks were yellow to each other?

If they are supposed to be white then the mechanic is indeed broken, because I can absolutely assure you that they were yellow.