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Jesus Returning Soon?

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Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#1 - 2013-12-18 21:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Christmas is upon us, which is the holiday where Christians celebrate the first time Jesus appeared on the Earth. Even though He was probably born in September and not December.

I am very interested in the Biblical prophecies of Jesus returning. I'm very interested if any of my fellow EvE pilots are interested in this topic.

Question: Will His return be soon? Why or why not?

Parameters: The Bible is true.

Disclaimer: The point of this thread is not to debate if Christianity, the Bible, or Jesus are true... In the context of the rules I believe that would be called a "religious" discussion.

Please stay on the topic posed by the question. Please don't troll. This thread will probably only appeal to those who believe in Christ.

Note: This is not a religious discussion. It is a scholarly discussion of an ancient text's content and a historical figure.
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#2 - 2013-12-18 22:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tollen Gallen
Da'iel Zehn wrote:
This thread will probably only appeal to those who believe in Christ.

Note: This is not a religious discussion.



How is it not a religious discussion if it's only going to appeal to those who believe in Christ. And he is the topic.



IB4L




I like Cake.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#3 - 2013-12-18 22:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Tollen Gallen wrote:
Da'iel Zehn wrote:
This thread will probably only appeal to those who believe in Christ.
Note: This is not a religious discussion.

How is it not a religious discussion if it's only going to appeal to those who believe in Christ. And he is the topic.

IB4L

I like Cake.


We can define religious as, "...an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods." That is a definition from Webster Dictionary.

As we are discussing an ancient book and historical person it isn't religious. Smile

Edit: Obi Wan Kenobi said, "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Something Random
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-12-18 22:53:42 UTC
Im back.

Someone mentioned a 'mince pie'

Im curious

"caught on fire a little bit, just a little."

"Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangs all here!"

I love Science, it gives me a Hadron.
Jove Death
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-12-18 23:00:32 UTC
I actually thought it he was born in June?.


The second coming can only be discussed in 2 ways

The end when the heavens open and the armies of the lord bring wrath on the world.

Or when you kick the bucket and if your a good boy you will see him.

The bible is it true?.

Well originally written in greek it was changed a few times until editing was stopped some 300 years later. It was translated into latin and then pretty much went global.

TBH either of your 2 questions will never be answered and always argued

Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#6 - 2013-12-18 23:26:19 UTC
Simple fact: we don't know when Jesus was born, but we are certain that Herod died on a date before Christ.

Because the gospels, you now, couldn't just give a anno civitas date.Straight

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2013-12-18 23:58:50 UTC
I see that people continue to cling to the perpetual lie that Christmas is somehow a Christian holiday, when in fact it is not a Christian holiday but a Pagan one. Same goes for decorating the tree or handing out gifts. As an atheist, I find this very topic quite amusing and utterly daft but I am going to give it a go anyway because I am a colossal vapid tool.

A: You could argue this until your face turned blue but no, he won't return as death has been pretty final for the last past thousands of years of mankind's existence and until technology reaches the apex where we can reverse brain death (de facto definition of death) we are not going to see any resurrections any time soon. Sorry.

Regarding your parameters, the Bible is a document written by man, passed over from one to another for centuries. That doesn't make it any more true than the nonsense spouted by ID movement or books written by Deepak Chopra.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#8 - 2013-12-19 00:03:01 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:

I am very interested in the Biblical prophecies of Jesus returning. I'm very interested if any of my fellow EvE pilots are interested in this topic.

Question: Will His return be soon? Why or why not?

Parameters: The Bible is true.


Herein lies the Path of Dark Madness. Really, really dark.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#9 - 2013-12-19 03:38:41 UTC
the real question is...what would a baby want with gold, frankincense and myrhh? wise men, indeed!
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#10 - 2013-12-19 07:36:02 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
the real question is...what would a baby want with gold, frankincense and myrhh? wise men, indeed!


But, the symbolism...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-12-19 07:49:38 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
the real question is...what would a baby want with gold, frankincense and myrhh? wise men, indeed!


Because the 3DS hadnt been invented yet thats why. P

St Jezza of Clarkson revealed this to us when the baby Stigg was born unto mankind.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
Kairavi Mrithyakara
#12 - 2013-12-19 10:10:27 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#13 - 2013-12-19 12:07:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Graygor wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
the real question is...what would a baby want with gold, frankincense and myrhh? wise men, indeed!


Because the 3DS hadnt been invented yet thats why. P

St Jezza of Clarkson revealed this to us when the baby Stigg was born unto mankind.

The Stig is the one true god, St Jezza, the Hamster and Captain Slow are his prophets. He giveth us Hi-octane fuels, the arts of going sideways and smoking of tyres, and above all a hatred of all things British Leyland. He requests only the occasional holy sacrifice, by fire, of Speed Cameras, Caravans and shoddy Daewoos masquerading as Chevy's as his rightful dues.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Samoth Egnoled
Caldari Provisions
#14 - 2013-12-19 12:14:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Samoth Egnoled
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
the real question is...what would a baby want with gold, frankincense and myrhh? wise men, indeed!


But, the symbolism...


It symbolises that men didn't know what to buy babies then, and probably have no idea today.


Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Graygor wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
the real question is...what would a baby want with gold, frankincense and myrhh? wise men, indeed!


Because the 3DS hadnt been invented yet thats why. P

St Jezza of Clarkson revealed this to us when the baby Stigg was born unto mankind.

The Stig is the one true god, St Jezza, the Hamster and Captain Slow are his prophets. He giveth us Hi-octane fuels, the arts of going sideways and smoking of tyres, and above all a hatred of all things British Leyland. He requests only the occasional holy sacrifice, by fire, of Speed Cameras, Caravans and shoddy Daewoos masquerading as Chevy's as his rightful dues.



Amen
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-12-19 13:36:44 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
I see that people continue to cling to the perpetual lie that Christmas is somehow a Christian holiday, when in fact it is not a Christian holiday but a Pagan one. Same goes for decorating the tree or handing out gifts. As an atheist, I find this very topic quite amusing and utterly daft but I am going to give it a go anyway because I am a colossal vapid tool.

A: You could argue this until your face turned blue but no, he won't return as death has been pretty final for the last past thousands of years of mankind's existence and until technology reaches the apex where we can reverse brain death (de facto definition of death) we are not going to see any resurrections any time soon. Sorry.

Regarding your parameters, the Bible is a document written by man, passed over from one to another for centuries. That doesn't make it any more true than the nonsense spouted by ID movement or books written by Deepak Chopra.

You may not like me saying this, but...

I like you. Oops
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#16 - 2013-12-19 13:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Jove Death wrote:
I actually thought it he was born in June?.

The second coming can only be discussed in 2 ways

The end when the heavens open and the armies of the lord bring wrath on the world.

Or when you kick the bucket and if your a good boy you will see him.

The bible is it true?.

Well originally written in greek it was changed a few times until editing was stopped some 300 years later. It was translated into latin and then pretty much went global.

TBH either of your 2 questions will never be answered and always argued

From my research the data is pointing to September 3 B.C. See this link and link. That site has a lot of great information.

After kicking the bucket or whatever... salvation is by grace alone not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). But real faith will produce works as James points out (James 2:17).

When I say "returning soon" or "second coming" I am referring to when the heavens open and the armies of the Lord will bring His judgement.

The parameters of this thread are not to debate the Bible's formation, preservation, or authenticity. The discussion should progress with the established variable that the Bible is true to discuss the question. If you were to look at the textual analysis and manuscript evidence we can trust that the words we have in the Bible are the original words written by the authors. Dr. James White is an expert on this that I've come to trust.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2013-12-19 15:02:52 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:

The parameters of this thread are not to debate the Bible's formation, preservation, or authenticity. The discussion should progress with the established variable that the Bible is true to discuss the question. If you were to look at the textual analysis and manuscript evidence we can trust that the words we have in the Bible are the original words written by the authors. Dr. James White is an expert on this that I've come to trust.


Ah, but by bringing in Jesus, the very central figure of Christian faith, on the premise that the Bible is true (literally, the word of God), you don't really come across as sincere with the intent of looking for a debate but rather pushing for your own agenda.

I know of Dr James White, and all I can say regarding him and his ilk, is that I would take them a lot more serious than tiresome Bible thumpers with an hard on agenda if they had a real academic background.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
stoicfaux
#18 - 2013-12-19 15:29:18 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:

Parameters: The Bible is true.

Ugh. Given that the Bible contradicts itself at times, that's a difficult assumption to work with.

Secondly, which bible? and why?

Thirdly, which translation? and why?


Quote:
Christmas is upon us, which is the holiday where Christians celebrate the first time Jesus appeared on the Earth. Even though He was probably born in September and not December.

Not really. A lot of Christians didn't celebrate Christmas because they saw it as a pagan holiday. In terms of US history, the Puritans didn't celebrate it, and Christmas in general didn't become popular in the US until the 1850s, IIRC.

With such a wobbly foundation, your question is difficult, or even pointless to answer, without locking down more baseline parameters.


So I have to ask, "How would Jesus celebrate Christmas?" To which the answer is, he wouldn't, he's Jewish.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#19 - 2013-12-19 15:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Da'iel Zehn wrote:

I am very interested in the Biblical prophecies of Jesus returning. I'm very interested if any of my fellow EvE pilots are interested in this topic.

Question: Will His return be soon? Why or why not?

Parameters: The Bible is true.


Herein lies the Path of Dark Madness. Really, really dark.

Yes, true that. It's an interesting exercise, if one just read through the direct sources (Revelations, Daniel, some of the later Old Testament books (Isaiah, Jeremiah maybe?) But reading even one internet site on this stuff will scramble your thinking. People try to use deductive analysis of the fine details of old scriptures. (Actually, of English translations/ transliterations of old scriptures). Picking out isolated verses from all over the Bible to support some conclusion. Applying Western pseudo-scientific analysis to what is essentially an Eastern mystical document just doesn't work.

And then there's the fact that most of these analysts/interpreters have deep pre-existing beliefs. Consciously or not, they're trying to make things fit into their own world-view and prejudices. The next thing you know, Obama is the Antichrist, welfare payments are the Dragon, and Lady Gaga is the Whore of Babylon. Maybe not that extreme or ridiculous, but along those lines at least.
stoicfaux
#20 - 2013-12-19 15:54:38 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:
I am very interested in the Biblical prophecies of Jesus returning.

Also, you can't use the Bible (i.e. its prophecies) to predict the date of Jesus' return. The bible itself says that.
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." Random page covering weasel/lawyer words to get around Matthew 24:36: http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-36.htm

If you want to know when Jesus is returning, you'll need to ask the Big Guy(tm) (but no one will believe you because the bible says not to believe you. Sad) So anyone else who says they know the answer is trying to sell you something. Bible prophecies and contracts listed in Jita local aren't dissimilar.

tl;dr - you're supposed to focus on the message and not read the bible as a legal book. In other words, God gave us ten commandments[1], and then Jesus said, "Okay that was obviously eight too many, let's try just two[2]. See if you can work with that.[3]"


[1] And Christians can't agree on what the commandments actually are because there are three places in the bible where they're listed. Differently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Traditions_for_numbering

[2] Love God, Love your neighbor. Luke 10:27

[3] Check the news to see how that's working.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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