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Fitting excercise: Anomaly Ishtar, Gurista / Serpentis
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Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-16 20:41:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Need the following optimized for Drones Rigging IV character doing gurista/serpentis rats. Usage: warp to anom at 100km, orbit mobile depot, sentries shoot stuff at 130km drone control range.


  • Below fit has 2 CPU left on a char with drones rigging IV.
  • Below fit has 100km optimal range on Gardes.
  • Below fit has the minimum functional drone control range, 132km.
  • Against other races than Gu/Se Bouncers and Curators make things easy, but this is for Gu/Se.
  • I want to tune down the cost, namely co-processor and possibly omnidirs. FN Omnidirs do give a bonus of ~6km control range compared to t2, but the main benefit is less CPU usage.
  • Another DLA would be really nice but I don't think it's doable.


Main thing to aim for: more isk/h.

[Ishtar, PVE Sentry Anomalies]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Co-Processor

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Small Clarity Ward Booster I
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot]

Medium Drone Scope Chip I
Medium Drone Scope Chip I

Garde II x5


So, can you top the performance? 800dps to 100 optimal, 132 control range.

EDIT PENDING: ishtar control range out of equation, will scrap the fits and work with 80km base range. Everything changes :D
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-12-16 21:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Here is the Sansha/Angel one for reference, I'm pretty happy with it since it's the only thing I've made that actually puts a dual active tank into proper use in circumventing CPU plus slot issues (90 tank vs. sansha, similiar vs. angel and drones). This has 0.4 CPU left with drones rigging IV, and a curator range of 130+24 (drone range of 150).

[Ishtar, PVE Sentry Anomalies, Sansha Angel Drone]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Small Armor Repairer II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Small Shield Booster II
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Bouncer II x5
Curator II x5
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-12-17 08:42:25 UTC
Personally I got better milage with the heavy drone 100mn afterburner fit. The overall DPS was comperable and the passive tank is easy mode. Also with the 100mn fit it seemed more difficult for enemy craft to just warp on top of you.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#4 - 2013-12-17 11:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Ishtar - warp to 50

[high]
4x200mm railgun II (spike m, navy antimatter m)

[med]
1x medium shield booster II
1x adaptive invulnerability field II
1x federation navy omnidirectional tracking link
1x medium afterburner II
1x conjunctive mag eccm (meta 4)

[low]
4x drone damage amp II
1x mag field stabilizer II

[rig]
1x medium processor overclocking I
1x medium capacitor control circuit I

[drones]
garde IIs
warden IIs
lights
ecm

Reasons for the gun rack

1 - dps reported ingame 924.6 with spike m @ 48km.
2 - guns prevent you needing to shoot frigates (they'll track and hit frigates fine down to about 25 with spike, and down to 13 with AM)
3 - drones take ~2 seconds to lock a frigate, then 4 seconds to shoot + huge wasteful overkill.
4 - guns are the difference between 2 drone salvos and 3 salvos for gurista BCs and non elite cruisers. ie effective dps is significantly enhanced by not needing to fire the 3rd salvo with its big overkill to kill them. As always battleships self rep so give better than straight line improvements for more dps.

5 - the AB I use to fine tune position, and to speed tank when required. Depending on your choice of anom, you could run 2 omnis or 2 resists, afaik the AB or the second resist was only needed for 1 anom. It has sufficient (~15cpu spare + 25 from the AB) to switch that for any common medslot if desired).
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-12-17 14:56:51 UTC
Excellent work Auranon, agree that it looks very nice especially reasons 3. and 4. The gun version should be better in all regards if available, my fit is merely for drone enthusiasts or newbros.

It could use a bit of extra drone control range; 62 is a tad low with the warp in.
I would look into a way to fit more tracking (either drones or guns) in a midslot.
But I'm sure you have tried these in EFT with the extra tight CPU.

+1 for good fitting.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-12-17 15:03:14 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
Personally I got better milage with the heavy drone 100mn afterburner fit. The overall DPS was comperable and the passive tank is easy mode. Also with the 100mn fit it seemed more difficult for enemy craft to just warp on top of you.


I'm certain it works, but I have strong doubts the isk/h is comparable. The reasons are applied drone dps with flight time and with drones getting shot and requiring flying back and forth. I might be wrong though!

What I'm certain of is that the 100MN would function well for the high end complexes as you can alter between sentries and heavies. I'd probably have the AB and rest of fit on swap at mobile depot for escalations, while focusing in sentry sniping at anomalies.

This leads me to thinking the rig choice could be a CPU-easy tank one for the reason of ability to swap for complexes on the fly, and possibly just ditch the 100km glitched gardes for a 70km fit.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#7 - 2013-12-17 16:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
No reason to not use t2 scope chips. Your control range is longer than optimal, and they are light on the calibration. Also your control range is off. All lvl 5 skills and 3 t2 DLAs puts you at 157km drone control range.

I see what you're trying to do with the fit and its good. However, vs guristas/serpentis I would consider wardens. They do 25% less paper dps, but vs high tier battleships and elite cruisers, the dps loss is less than 10%. This allows you to make the fit a bit easier in terms of usage (can get more utility out of the fit) and a bit more forgiving SP-wise than when trying to get garde's to 100km.

Here's an idea. Lots of room for variation though

[Ishtar, super guriserp anom]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Prototype ECCM Magnetometric Sensor Cluster (second sebo for serp)

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot]

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Drone Scope Chip II

Warden II x5 (200km opti)
Garde II x5 (81km opti)

157km control range, 149km with hac 4 ew drone interfacing 4


the only thing lost over your fit is 20km with gardes. Here they only shoot to 81km (your fit with t2 rigs puts them at ~110km). The benefits are you get superb targeting, won't get jammed, and have frig scan resolution and 9 locked targets. The c-type is optional but I would recommend it against serpentis (along with dual sebos), as grand admirals and the like can hit non-afterburning ishtars at around 70km, and hard.


All that said, I think that for serp/guri anomalies, its so easy to tank the ishtar that its almost a waste to try and snipe from extreme ranges. I much prefer something like this in practice. Afterburner not necessary vs guristas. Deadspace booster is probably optional if you use the AB.

[Ishtar, warp to 50km/70km anom]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link (t2 is okay for these)
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster (highly recommended, incredible value for the price)
10MN Afterburner II (can go for a cheap gal navy/serp one for easy cap stability)
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script (eccm for guristas)

Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot] Fit whatever
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

[empty rig slot] Rig whatever. Resistance, tank, scope chips, pvp rigs, whatever.
[empty rig slot]

Warden II x5 (169km unrigged)
Garde II x5 (67km unrigged, 81km with 1 t2 scope rig, 95km with 2 t2 scope rig)

109km control range, 2 free rig slots, 80 spare cpu (can fit 2 t2 drone rigs without fittings issues)

This tanks really well, and the booster and AB will permarun, with 5's and no implants, and will have 10m time with lvl 4 in the navigation skills (easily perma with faction AB). You're still far enough away from the rats taht tracking isn't an issue. Tanking isn't an issue either. If rats spawn 20km farther away you can still switch to wardens and plink them to 109km no problem. Or you can use scope rigs and keep gardes out the whole time.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Mini Vordul
Hotel Krabifornia
#8 - 2013-12-17 16:24:50 UTC
Miasmos wrote:

I'm certain it works, but I have strong doubts the isk/h is comparable. The reasons are applied drone dps with flight time and with drones getting shot and requiring flying back and forth. I might be wrong though!


100 MN Ishtar is 100% afk after warp in. Double LSE gives you a high enough sig radius that your heavy drones don't get targetted.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-12-17 17:22:54 UTC
Mini Vordul wrote:
Miasmos wrote:

I'm certain it works, but I have strong doubts the isk/h is comparable. The reasons are applied drone dps with flight time and with drones getting shot and requiring flying back and forth. I might be wrong though!


100 MN Ishtar is 100% afk after warp in. Double LSE gives you a high enough sig radius that your heavy drones don't get targetted.


This is interesting. Can anyone confirm the "heavies do not get targeted" part? I've ratted quite a bit with a carrier and drones get targeted with one, but the ishtar would stay close as well.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-12-17 17:27:10 UTC
Good pointers Batelle!

I would see the fits a bit less efficient than the original (gardes) but what I really like is the optional rig choice on the tanky 50km version. That would allow on the fly adaptation to run exploration sites, which is pretty much one of the reasons for an ishtar in the first place. I think overall I'll iterate on a flexible fit now.
Mini Vordul
Hotel Krabifornia
#11 - 2013-12-17 20:46:25 UTC
Miasmos wrote:

This is interesting. Can anyone confirm the "heavies do not get targeted" part? I've ratted quite a bit with a carrier and drones get targeted with one, but the ishtar would stay close as well.


Most of the Guristas/Serpentis nullsec is occupied by the CFC. They don't like to give out their secrets because they'll get nerfed.

I just left Guristas nullsec and I can 100% assure you that with this fit in sanctums your drones will only get aggro if you go outside of 77km range of the rat spawn, which is only really a problem in the pirate complex sanctum. Works fine in hubs too.

[Ishtar, AFK Anoms]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
100MN Afterburner II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

Wasp II x5
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#12 - 2013-12-17 23:55:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Miasmos wrote:
Excellent work Auranon, agree that it looks very nice especially reasons 3. and 4. The gun version should be better in all regards if available, my fit is merely for drone enthusiasts or newbros.

It could use a bit of extra drone control range; 62 is a tad low with the warp in.
I would look into a way to fit more tracking (either drones or guns) in a midslot.
But I'm sure you have tried these in EFT with the extra tight CPU.

+1 for good fitting.


my control range in an Ishtar with no DLA is 80km...

Using a second Omni instead of the AB should prevent it needing to move.

I believe its shot about 4 bil isk now, so EFT not required. Second Omni is probably the one thing I should change on it.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-12-18 09:28:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Duh, ishtar range bonus. This is why this thread is useful for me. I think Dominix fulltime.

Scrap all the fits (mine) and work with the real control range. Will allow dropping a DLA for 55CPU.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#14 - 2013-12-18 10:51:10 UTC
ah yes, easier to fit without that!
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-12-18 11:14:56 UTC
Miasmos wrote:
Froggy Storm wrote:
Personally I got better milage with the heavy drone 100mn afterburner fit. The overall DPS was comperable and the passive tank is easy mode. Also with the 100mn fit it seemed more difficult for enemy craft to just warp on top of you.


I'm certain it works, but I have strong doubts the isk/h is comparable. The reasons are applied drone dps with flight time and with drones getting shot and requiring flying back and forth. I might be wrong though!

What I'm certain of is that the 100MN would function well for the high end complexes as you can alter between sentries and heavies. I'd probably have the AB and rest of fit on swap at mobile depot for escalations, while focusing in sentry sniping at anomalies.

This leads me to thinking the rig choice could be a CPU-easy tank one for the reason of ability to swap for complexes on the fly, and possibly just ditch the 100km glitched gardes for a 70km fit.


The MWD bonus for heavy drones makes then very quick to get on target as you are never more than 10-20km off spawn. Additionally with the 100mn version you don't have to target your drones so lock time doesn't apply. The Wasp II can blap the elite frigs as soon as they spawn, and in rare cases they choose not to do so, the 100mn orbits faster than the frigs @20km from center and the wasps catch them without trouble.

With one ish it can clear a f-hub in the 15min range. A pair of them takes more management but pushes that down to about 8min. However, the true advantage is in running parallel. Since there is no need to target them once they land and pull initial agro you can drop drones orbit a bit of the scenery and forget them. In a fully upgraded system you. can run 4 of them at once while watching Intel channels at almost no risk and clear a combined 150-200/hr before loot
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-12-18 14:47:36 UTC
Very much the above, I used to run forlorn hubs with a Gilasquad each ship afk in individual site back when forlorn hub was bugged not to aggro drones at new spawns.

The isk/h on afk ishtar could benefit from swapping navigation comps to omnidirs for killing small stuff on mwd joust and using 1 drone speed rig (% boost vs MN thrust makes the rig better).
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-12-18 14:52:20 UTC
Mini Vordul wrote:
Miasmos wrote:

This is interesting. Can anyone confirm the "heavies do not get targeted" part? I've ratted quite a bit with a carrier and drones get targeted with one, but the ishtar would stay close as well.


Most of the Guristas/Serpentis nullsec is occupied by the CFC. They don't like to give out their secrets because they'll get nerfed.


ruh roh, my pve anom ratting SECRETS!!

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#18 - 2013-12-18 16:11:52 UTC
pmchem wrote:
Mini Vordul wrote:
Miasmos wrote:

This is interesting. Can anyone confirm the "heavies do not get targeted" part? I've ratted quite a bit with a carrier and drones get targeted with one, but the ishtar would stay close as well.


Most of the Guristas/Serpentis nullsec is occupied by the CFC. They don't like to give out their secrets because they'll get nerfed.


ruh roh, my pve anom ratting SECRETS!!


gonna bring my ishtar up to VFK and then go afk ratting anoms. hahahahahahaha Twisted

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.