EVE New Citizens Q&A

I should start this by saying that I engage in small gang warfare, currently in NPC null sec, but I've done it in FW and RvB too. Basically small blobs bimberling around trying to catch solo or smaller blobs, occassionally getting outblobbed and running or dying. My examples will use Projectile weapons as that is what I am most experienced in.

My question relates to changing ammunition in mid fight. Do real PvPers actually do this or is it just something people talk about to sound knowledgeable?

So let's say we catch a Hound. He is going to go down in about 10 seconds, changing ammunition is just stupid.

So make it a Drake instead. He will last longer. Now in theory he will be shield tanked and the lowest base resistance is EM. Fact is though, most Drakes will have an Anti-EM rig and 2 x Invulnerability fields. Thus his resistances will be quite similar, but with Thermal being his lowest. Some Drakes though will have an Anti-Thermal rig and an EM Hardener, then one or more Invulnerability fields and his Kinitic resistance will be the lowest. Others might have Anti-EM and Anti-Thermal rigs and 2 Invulnerability fields, then it will be between EM and Kinetic. Some though will just go for the big buffer, all Field Extender rigs and Invulnerability Fields and risk EM damage. Frankly the only thing you can really say for 98% certainty is that Explosive won't be his lowest resistance...for shields, but almost definitely his lowest resist for armor, which won't be as much, but needs to be chewed through nonetheless.

In my Hurricane I expect to be fighting at close range. So my choice of ammunition is EMP, Fusion or Phased Plasma, which basically means EM, Explosive or Thermal damage - always Faction Ammunition (Republic Fleet). T2 ammunition I think is crap and don't use it, that might change after the next patch.

So here's how I do it. When I build the ship, I randomly pick one of the above ammunition types (Faction variants), I load my guns and put 1 or 1.5 reloads in my cargohold. That is it! I only carry one type of ammunition. Once upon a time I did try to carry various types, but all that led to was a bigger Isk loss when I died and a headache trying to work out what to use.

Seriously do real PvPers change ammunition type? Or is it just something the EFT warriors like to rabbit on about to sound leet? I know of no effective way to work out what another player is tanked for, unless you have specifically stalked a particular player prior to the battle. Most ships last less then a minute when they are primaried. You don't have time to poke at it with EMP, then Fusion and finally Phased Plasma before deciding Fusion is the best and wasting time reloading. Occassionally, you might get a few minutes warning that you are coming up against a Shield or Armor gang/ship, but people often fill the holes. None of my Drakes or Shield tanked Hurricanes ever have EM as the weakest resist. You can take a guess, but really it is pot luck, so why not just make that guess before you even undock.

In small gang warfare I tend to come up against Shield Tanked ships the most often. In my limited experience I seem to get better results from EMP ammunition. This I put down to noobs or chancers taking risks and going for an all buffer tank. However, I'm far from certain about my conclusions and I'm left thinking that those people aren't a big threat anyway. Someone who rigs their tank properly is the one I should be looking out for and for that player Phased Plasma would most likely be the more effective. However, at no point am I going to be in mid battle and think "Actually, it looks like I need to switch to EMP!"

When it comes to range that is a similar thing. With my Autocannon Hurricane, I burn into close range in a matter of seconds. If I'm getting kitted it is GTFO. The only problem is when I'm snared by an Inteceptor who is keeping just inside long point range. But Sabot ammuntion isn't going to save me there, it is faster fleet mates or my drones. With an Artillery fit, I will grant there is some scope for different ranged ammunition, but we are talking Alpha popping of individual ships before they can warp off where you completely dominate the opposition or much larger fleet fights.

So what do others think? Have I missed something? Could I ask for replies from people with real experience, not theories on what 'could' be done in certain hyperthetical situations. Assume the enemy is unknown to you until the battle is joined or no earlier than a minute before as you race to reach your tackler.

Wall of text man! Summarise!! :)

Yes pvp'ers do change ammo types. But only if it makes sense like you say.

For me I'll set my ammo on their probable lowest resistance before a fight. I'll only change ammo type mid fight if I notice my current damage is lower than I expected. This means they are obviously tanked towards your current damage and you should swap out. The good thing here is even if you're second ammo does a little bit less damage than the first, there is no need to change back as there isn't a massive difference. However sometimes you'll switch and find that sweet spot you were looking for :)

Hope that helps.

No disrespect, but the problem seems to be that you have experience only in gangs - given away by the 'you race to reach your tackler' comment. In fleet situations you're shooting a variety of targets whose resists tend to average out to omni-tanked, and you'll be fighting at a fleet specific range so ammo choice matters little. Reloading during a fight rarely happens, because as you've observed, the DPS loss from reloading is rarely worth the minor gains.

However, in small gangs proper ammo choice BEFORE the fight is essential. Many ships, especially t2 ships, have omni tanks that rarely actually have omni resists, so loading the proper ammo before a fight CAN make the difference in a close matchup. For example, I've lost a Drake to a Deimos because I hadn't felt like picking up any CN Havoc when shopping that time - spent the entire fight plinking away at his 90% armor kinetic resist and died an embarassing death. This was a situation where having the proper ammo would have easily won me the fight, as evidence by when I ran into the same Deimos a day later and dropped him in less than a minute with the proper explosive ammo.

Similarly, my default nano-cane involve kiting at range, but occasionally I'll want to simply burn down a target before it's backup arrives - again, this is a choice that is usually made before a fight, but the fact that I often need to make this decision ensures that I need both RF EMP/Fusion as well as Barrage.

TLDR; yeah, it doesn't matter in gangs when shooting the primary, but often when soloing or in small gangs it can make a huge difference in the outcome of a fight.

There are a couple of comments above that sum up the issue that I am having.





This I just don't get and is the crux of my question - how to work out which is the lowest resistance, given that a serious PvPer would fill the holes. Although credit to Tamiya for pointing out that with T2 ships it is easier to identify, by virtue of the fact they are so strong in two areas that it is near impossible to bring up the other two to the same level. However, most T2 ships are pretty fragile and can be burned down pretty rapidly in gang fights. The obvious exception being the HAC. My experiences tend to be in BC gangs, ganking other BC gangs, with a smattering of T2 ships usually Sabres, Rapiers and Scimitars or individual BSs.

Makes sense what Ryans Revenge and flakeys say about switching once if initially the damage effects are poor. That is probably the best answer that I've seen to date. I've been getting frustrated with reading peoples comments on various forums and in EFT loadouts where they talk about using specific ammo types where they imply it is obvious what the enemy ship is weak to.

Lady Go Diveher, you don't quite seem to have understood my post or you seem to think that the only real PvP involves your particular playstyle. Barrage M might be good for kiting, but it is generally awknowledged that most T2 ammunition is poor. For the playstyle that I engage in, which I have clearly identified (my apologies if you find that offensive), Hail would be the T2 ammunition of choice - it is crap!

You work out what is the lowest resistance based on your knowledge of common PvP fits - even omni tanks generally have holes, for example against standard armor-canes the tank is EANM based so even with one anti-explosive rig (which is rare, most people go triple trimark) kinetic or explosive are still your best bets, so fit accordingly. A drake with two invulns and one em-reinforcer is still weakest versus EM, especially if you're going to be nueting hardners off (this happens often in small gangs, so it can be worth it to load for shooting base resists). Frigates often don't have the fitting to plug resist holes, and are over quickly, so these are the most important fights to have the proper ammo loaded for.

On the t2 front, it's much more obvious - Curses/Arazus often have gaping EM holes which make it worth reloading to exploit, T2 Amarr you almost always want to be shooting with EM (they often plug thermal holes on armor tankers, but thermal is still decent), and versus t2 Caldari EM (especially in combination with nuets) isn't something you can really go wrong with.

Again, this matters much more in 1v1's and small gang, where your dps will be primarily directed at one target that you can predict resists for rather than w/e random combinations of ships are in the gang you're shooting with primaries dying every fifteen seconds.

Personally I always go with their second lowest resistance and this works fine for me. About 80% of people will plug their lowest resist with a hardener or rig of some sort. The only exception to this rule I have found personally is with amarr t2 ships. Since all their resistances are pretty high most people (including myself) generally opt to use energized adaptive nano membranes rather than specific hardeners, meaning their lowest resist is their lowest resist.

Hope that helps. Feel free to contact me ingame if you have any further questions or want to learn nano ;)

If you do switch ammo during the fight, don't forget to reactivate your guns afterwards!

Almost lost a hurricane that way once.

well in the gangs I fly in we always know the ships we are fighting ahead of time so we do load optimal damage for the most part.
Really in 0.0 most tanks are shield so that is either EM or Thermal unless it's T2 Minnie then it's explosive.
Armour tanks are almost always explosive. it's pretty simple. If you don't know the ships you are fighting ahead of time then i would invest more in scouts.

I don't think I have ever switched ammo types in the middle of a fight though - takes too much time.

As a primarily laser flyer, I frequently switch ammo, but it's somewhat a moot point for lasers since the switch is near instant. Conflag on slow, large targets, MF on everything else in range, Scorch for distant targets, UV for distant and insanely fast targets.

Projectiles: Change ammo for range/dmg type and it's rarely done.

Hybrids: Change ammo for range/cap and it's rarely done.

Lasers: Change ammo instantly for range/cap reasons. (( No delay ))

Missles: Change ammo for many reasons:
Range/Dmg type just as rare as projectiles.
You get primaried in a small gang you might switch to defenders.
You are getting ecm on you it might be time to switch to f.o.f. missles.
(( Defenders and f.o.f. missles happen a lot with gurista ships as most dps comes from drones ))