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Best bang for the buck starting out?
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Bravo Buccaneer Naskingar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-12-17 03:15:38 UTC
Hi all,

I'm getting back to EVE after a 2-yr hiatus, and would like to get into a combination of industry with some exploration/wormhole adventures. I have a friend who helped me with a bit of kick-starting funds, and would like to know your advice for where the "best bang for the buck is" with regard to industry.

A couple notes: I've watched the videos by Exodis on YouTube, seeing capital manufacturing for carriers and dreads, pretty cool stuff! I would eventually like to get to the point of being able to manufacture caps and even pilot them. But the first time I played (2008 - 2010) I couldn't even fathom having enough money to get the skill books! In the meantime, I would like to learn more about Invention and T2 production, though have read that the datacore market went to crap. I'm willing to work up to that level for sure, but would also like to take a bite out of the time required to get there, perhaps by using some of the ISK I have to accelerate my production goals.

Another thing I'm limited by is time. I have a real life family and get limited time in-game. I'd love to be able to PLEX an account, but again I'm having a hard time figuring out where to best place my investments to get them working for me.

So... let's just say hypothetically someone had a Billion ISK to work with, where would said character best start embarking on an industry career? Thanks in advance!
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-12-17 04:11:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Has nothing to do with "Industry", but give it some thought. Attention

Get yourself into top-notch exploration ships with best possible mods for scanning/hacking/cloak, and go get the goodies.

Whether its scanning down other pilots in missions to ninja their loot, or going after scannable/hackable sites, it's a great "career" choice for someone with limited EVE Time and steady RL commitments. Also, with such small and brutally fast ships that are hard for others to gank, the opportunity for small sized, highly valuable Courier contracts also becomes an option.

No waiting for CTA's, or mining Ops, or other people to get of their asses -- you can travel free amongst the stars when you see fit. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Bravo Buccaneer Naskingar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-12-17 04:54:26 UTC
So... been flying around in the basic racial scanning frigates and will work to improve my scanning skills, but have been a little confused about where all the best opportunities are. I've found those crappy basic "Guristas Hideaway" sites and even an unstable wormhole (didn't know what the heck to do on the other side, since I think better players and/or Sleepers would tear me to bits).

I like the idea of exploration, just haven't really pieced together what the best approach to getting said "best ships and skills are."
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#4 - 2013-12-17 16:54:14 UTC
get decent scanning skills. Get a t2 scanning covops frig. Get level 5 hacking and lvl 5 archaeology for t2 analyzer mods of each type. Go to nullsec, find data/relic sites. Get loot.

If you focus your training you can get most of it done in a few weeks, well enough to max out the isk in that avenue while you train for other things.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Solai
Doughfleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#5 - 2013-12-17 17:55:41 UTC
I made my first bil or 3 via salvage. With that starting capital, I next moved in trade. Since then have seen no reason to bother spending any effort outside trade. It makes money while your offline - all you have to do is crunch some numbers when you're online.
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
#6 - 2013-12-17 18:19:07 UTC
If you want to get into Industry and make real isk, real fast, you're gonna need a lot more than a billion.

I'm sure some will come along here and tell you to start small and build ammo/drones etc and sell in mission running systems, but that's small time. Avoid this, every newbie gets this advice.

Think big and you'll be rewarded!

Do the leg work yourself, find a market and corner it. Watch the billions roll in...

Do other activities to build up the ISK while your production skills level. Max them out before you start any serious project. Every other serious industrialist has them maxed... (Market pvp etc etc...)

Google for guides tbh...
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-12-17 22:48:58 UTC
Batelle wrote:
get decent scanning skills. Get a t2 scanning covops frig. Get level 5 hacking and lvl 5 archaeology for t2 analyzer mods of each type. Go to nullsec, find data/relic sites. Get loot.

If you focus your training you can get most of it done in a few weeks, well enough to max out the isk in that avenue while you train for other things.


lvl 4 hacking skills are fine for this. the minigame is very easy with the t1 mods even in null.
Some people will tell you it is a luck based game and that the t1 mods will mean you fail a lot.
They are wrong.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-12-17 23:11:27 UTC
Bill gets you started just fine with smallerscale T2 production, just dont expect to start capitals/battleships productions.
Bravo Buccaneer Naskingar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-12-18 02:56:03 UTC
Termy Rockling wrote:
Bill gets you started just fine with smallerscale T2 production, just dont expect to start capitals/battleships productions.


That's good to know, and I'm patient to get toward BC/BS and eventually capital production. I'd just like some more recommendations on a good way to start moving toward any sort of profitable production! For example, if I don't do any mining and don't do any reprocessing... is it possible to buy raw minerals at a decent price, produce them with a blueprint, and walk away with some cash in pocket after the sale?

I don't want to spend SP on mining and spend a lot of time in space if I don't have to!

As for the salvaging operations: how did you make a Billion+ salvaging?! I assume this is scanning down other players missions and salvaging the wrecks with a Noctis or something like that? Did you salvage anywhere other than hi-sec?

And as for exploration: Can a Covert Ops frigate survive the sites in 0.0? Do rats come to relic/data sites when you're there or are they only in belts and at stargazes?

In my previous EVE career, I had a ~39SP character, and spent a little time in 0.0, though the group I was in was quickly swallowed up by a warring alliance. I lost a lot of ships and ISK doing that, since I didn't have much time to rat in the belts or run the complexes there, but it gave me a taste of the possibilities in the game. I'm looking forward to getting out there again, but I want to get financially stable before doing so!

Thanks for the advice everyone, and look forward to your follow-up responses.
Bravo Buccaneer Naskingar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-12-18 03:02:50 UTC
Solai wrote:
I made my first bil or 3 via salvage. With that starting capital, I next moved in trade. Since then have seen no reason to bother spending any effort outside trade. It makes money while your offline - all you have to do is crunch some numbers when you're online.


Solai, thanks for the reply. I have another character that is skilling up trade skills and I am really interested in this route. I love the sound of "making money while offline" ;-) I have experimented a little bit with trade, but have been unwilling to commit too many resources since I'm so inexperienced with it. For example, I bought 10 Venture mining frigates for around $230K and ended up selling them quickly for about $340K. I was surprised... is there really a big market for Ventures?! And when I went to buy some other T1 products, I put up buy orders for 1000 units and was barely able to purchase 2 or 3 units over a week long period. This was even after seeing volume of those items in the high 10s and 100s of units per day, and I had the highest buy order with a 4-jump radius (was avoiding low-sec). What was I doing wrong?
Cadaran2
Osei Industries
#11 - 2013-12-18 09:49:38 UTC
Quote:
That's good to know, and I'm patient to get toward BC/BS and eventually capital production. I'd just like some more recommendations on a good way to start moving toward any sort of profitable production! For example, if I don't do any mining and don't do any reprocessing... is it possible to buy raw minerals at a decent price, produce them with a blueprint, and walk away with some cash in pocket after the sale?


You don't need to mine at all as an industrialist. Unless you have your own fleet of miners the amount you can harvest is going to be a drop in the ocean compared to what you will be manufacturing with a billion to turn over.

So for now I would get PE5 and some other basic indy skills and have a play around, see what makes you a profit. There's a program called IskPerHour that many industrialists use, it shows you all kinds of data really quickly and easily (how much profit/loss an item makes, what materials are needed for your skill level etc)

As for trade just give it a go. The more ISK you sink into it the more you will get out of it but you can still gain the experience even if you just have a play with 10mill or so while you're off doing other stuff like exploring.
As for the low amounts of that item you were getting, check how many of those '10s and 100's' were going to buy orders and sell orders. If you had a buy order up but its an item that people will just use sell orders for, then no one will fulfill your buy order.

You're on the right track though, just continue to mess around with all three activities :-D
Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
#12 - 2013-12-18 16:49:32 UTC
1 billion is quite a small sum of money to start industry.

T2 items is not feasible, you need POS for copying and proper setup will cost you more than 1 bil.

I would advise to start with rigs, especially the most popular ones (shield core extenders, trimarks, capacitor etc.). It's great money as long as you buy salvage from buy orders and sell rigs to sell orders. Needs quite a lot of babysitting though.
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#13 - 2013-12-19 18:31:40 UTC
I recommend Ammo manufacturing. You can start with tech 1 and then move into tech 2.

The nice thing with ammo is you can make long build jobs for relatively little isk. You make your money on volume, so several build jobs running at the same time is the ideal.

It doesn't take much to have week long build jobs so your available gaming time doesn't matter so much, when you have time start some jobs, deliver the ones that are done, if you don't come back for a week, no big deal.

Tech 2 ammo is easy to get into skill wise, and simple to do well. It can make a bunch of money to get you into other types of manufacturing. You do have to watch the markets though, not all ammo types are profitable all the time.
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-12-20 15:38:22 UTC
Small pos and labs costs like 300-400mill, i dont understand where you get math that says 1B is not enough for t2 Roll
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-12-22 17:19:29 UTC
Bravo Buccaneer Naskingar wrote:
For example, if I don't do any mining and don't do any reprocessing... is it possible to buy raw minerals at a decent price, produce them with a blueprint, and walk away with some cash in pocket after the sale?

I don't want to spend SP on mining and spend a lot of time in space if I don't have to!


Even if you did the mining yourself, the minerals still costed what their market value is. You are better off doing something that makes you more money than mining and using that money to buy the minerals.

Now if you had miners mining for you and you give them 90% value on the minerals you save 10%. This would or should only work with new miners since they would lack the skills and standings to get 100% refine rate. You would need skills and standing though and you woud save 10% and they would get back more than their skills even allow. I am sure if you join an indy corp they may have a mining division or allies they buy minerals at bulk rate from. Also location of where you buy minerals vs location of selling item will dictate if you make a profit.

Don't be that indy guy that sells items below mineral cost because you spent 10 hours mining a day and think the minerals were free.
Xurr
Wasted Potential.
#16 - 2013-12-22 21:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Xurr
Well usually when I post most of my numbers are wrong, but lets have a go at this.

T2 manufacturing, 1 bil start:

Small Caldari Control Tower 65 mil.

Mobile lab 68 mil.

Advanced Mobile Lab 112 mil.

Ice. 7,200 @ 17260 ea. 124 mil. (need this every month, plus star base charters)

POS total: ~370 mil.


BPOs for T2 drones

Garde 1 BPO 14mil. (imo get 2)

Warden 1 BPO 14mi. ((imo get 2)

Superconductor Rails BPO 5 mil.

Particle Accelerator Unit BPO 5 mil.

Total: ~66 mil.


Skills

Production Eff. 5

CPU Management 5

Science 5

Electronic Engineering 3 10mil. (for making the superconductors, accelerator units, making the drones and invention)

Mechanical Engineering 3 10mi. (for invention, making the drones)

Gallente Encryption Methods 3 400k. (for invention)

Advanced Mass Production 3 20 mil. (more slots)

Advanced Laboratory Operations 3 20 mil. (more slots)

Skills total ~61 mil.


Materials

~162 mil for your first batch of 250 sentry drones.


That totals to about 659 mil.


You should be able to make that back without too much trouble within the first month. I'm assuming you place buy orders and don't just dump the drones. On sentry drones you'd still make a profit currently by dumping them to buy orders and just buying the materials from sell orders. Other T2 items not so much.

Why not 2 advanced labs? One toon probably can't use all the slots. The advanced + mobile has 4 copy slots and 7? invention slots. Between the two you also have all your slots needed to research the BPOs.

Research the BPOs using your new POS to 10me/pe for easy mode. The T2 components might not need that much but I don't care enough to look it up, it'll take less than a day anyhow.


That should be a sustainable start. The skills for invention should make their way to level 4 eventually imo.

Oh and don't haul like 200mil in a t1 in paper indy ship. Red frog is usually pretty reasonable for transportation, i'd suggest them over hauling it in something silly. It'll eat into your profits but dieing will do so even more.
Bravo Buccaneer Naskingar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-12-23 18:28:16 UTC
I appreciate the time/effort you put into these responses, and am happy to report that with your advice I have already been able to identify some profitable endeavors!

I'm working on my manufacturing and efficiency skills right now. I have a bunch of things I'd like to refine/reprocess in order to recapture the raw materials, but the current station I'm in offers terrible refining and reprocessing amount, methinks it is due to no standing with corporation. I'll work on building some standings as well as working on the refining skills.

Thanks again all, and look forward to seeing you in-game (with my main account, instead of this one!)
Bravo Buccaneer Naskingar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-12-23 18:31:32 UTC
Xurr wrote:
Well usually when I post most of my numbers are wrong, but lets have a go at this.

...

BPOs for T2 drones

Garde 1 BPO 14mil. (imo get 2)

Warden 1 BPO 14mi. ((imo get 2)

Superconductor Rails BPO 5 mil.

Particle Accelerator Unit BPO 5 mil.

Total: ~66 mil.

...

Materials

~162 mil for your first batch of 250 sentry drones.

...

Research the BPOs using your new POS to 10me/pe for easy mode. The T2 components might not need that much but I don't care enough to look it up, it'll take less than a day anyhow.
...


Xurr, thanks for the detailed response and calculations!

Research and invention is a whole new area for me, and I'd need to ensure the profitability on those drones, so I'll do a bit of scouting around. Most of the items I'm finding do NOT turn a profit, so I will be extra careful to find key items. Thanks again.
Xurr
Wasted Potential.
#19 - 2013-12-23 19:18:05 UTC
I'd be moderately interested in a list of items you found not to be profitable.
Sir Gankal0t
5th Element Incorporated
Corelum Syndicate
#20 - 2013-12-23 21:57:22 UTC
Bravo Buccaneer Naskingar wrote:
Hi all,

I'm getting back to EVE after a 2-yr hiatus, and would like to get into a combination of industry with some exploration/wormhole adventures. I have a friend who helped me with a bit of kick-starting funds, and would like to know your advice for where the "best bang for the buck is" with regard to industry.

A couple notes: I've watched the videos by Exodis on YouTube, seeing capital manufacturing for carriers and dreads, pretty cool stuff! I would eventually like to get to the point of being able to manufacture caps and even pilot them. But the first time I played (2008 - 2010) I couldn't even fathom having enough money to get the skill books! In the meantime, I would like to learn more about Invention and T2 production, though have read that the datacore market went to crap. I'm willing to work up to that level for sure, but would also like to take a bite out of the time required to get there, perhaps by using some of the ISK I have to accelerate my production goals.

Another thing I'm limited by is time. I have a real life family and get limited time in-game. I'd love to be able to PLEX an account, but again I'm having a hard time figuring out where to best place my investments to get them working for me.

So... let's just say hypothetically someone had a Billion ISK to work with, where would said character best start embarking on an industry career? Thanks in advance!



Just curious you mentioned "videos by Exodis try to find those on youtube,
could you provide me a directt link? could not find them.

thanks
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