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So a 30 mill isk ship will be able to 1 volley a 100-150 mill ship in hi-sec.
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Ethidium Bromide
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
#41 - 2011-11-22 15:59:33 UTC
wow from a suicide ganking hurray, to a butthurt miner to a math ‰ thread in 2 pages!

EVE, i am home Bear
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#42 - 2011-11-22 16:28:01 UTC
Yeesh. If us miner didn't want to play in easy mode, the gankers wouldn't have it so easy.

We (miners) are responsible for most ganks, because we make it easy for them. Make them work for it and most gankers (myself included) would give up.



Yes, I mine and gank miners. I try to remove local competition. Sometimes it works.



How about this. Every miner tries for 1 month the counter-ganking methods that have been mentioned over and over on these forums. If successful ganks doesn't drop by 50-90%, then you may have a right to complain. But right now, lazy miners = easy ganks.


Note: if anyone is interested in learning how to mitigate gank likelihood while mining, feel free to EVEmail me.
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2011-11-22 16:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Boom
Andski wrote:
Serial Chi wrote:
Andski wrote:
all the honourable pvp requests



lol.... what game are you playing?


the game that highsec macrominers like the OP wish EVE was


Lulwut? Do you have any idea how many exhumers i've ganked? Google is your friend.
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2011-11-22 16:53:22 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Yeesh. If us miner didn't want to play in easy mode, the gankers wouldn't have it so easy.

We (miners) are responsible for most ganks, because we make it easy for them. Make them work for it and most gankers (myself included) would give up.



Yes, I mine and gank miners. I try to remove local competition. Sometimes it works.



How about this. Every miner tries for 1 month the counter-ganking methods that have been mentioned over and over on these forums. If successful ganks doesn't drop by 50-90%, then you may have a right to complain. But right now, lazy miners = easy ganks.


Note: if anyone is interested in learning how to mitigate gank likelihood while mining, feel free to EVEmail me.


There is no way to escape ganking, not within reasonable efforts anyway. Sure, you could mine aligned, all the time, you'd effectively be putting in the efforts of a 0.0 ninja miner but your only rewards is peanuts. There is no escape, first thing you know you're mining, and next thing you know, suddenly boom! Suddenly Boom has destroyed your ship.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2011-11-22 16:54:49 UTC
Should a Welpfleet be allowed to win against a supercap that is worth BILLIONS of isk?

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2011-11-22 16:55:41 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Yeesh. If us miner didn't want to play in easy mode, the gankers wouldn't have it so easy.

We (miners) are responsible for most ganks, because we make it easy for them. Make them work for it and most gankers (myself included) would give up.



Yes, I mine and gank miners. I try to remove local competition. Sometimes it works.



How about this. Every miner tries for 1 month the counter-ganking methods that have been mentioned over and over on these forums. If successful ganks doesn't drop by 50-90%, then you may have a right to complain. But right now, lazy miners = easy ganks.


Note: if anyone is interested in learning how to mitigate gank likelihood while mining, feel free to EVEmail me.


There is no way to escape ganking, not within reasonable efforts anyway. Sure, you could mine aligned, all the time, you'd effectively be putting in the efforts of a 0.0 ninja miner but your only rewards is peanuts. There is no escape, first thing you know you're mining, and next thing you know, suddenly boom! Suddenly Boom has destroyed your ship.


Reposting this:

A) Mine in a reclusive system with few people.
B) Set d-scan to 1,000,000km, if you see destroyers or tornados on there, protip: They're likely coming to gank something, start warping out.
C) Mine while pointing in the direction of a celestial object.
D) If you suspect yourself as being a gank target, ship down to a much cheaper Coveter? They only mine about 10% less than a Hulk, and cost only 20mil. I doubt anyone would bother ganking it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2011-11-22 17:03:34 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
There is no way to escape ganking, not within reasonable efforts anyway.
Clicking a button is unreasonable effort now? Shocked

Yeah, ganking needs to be buffed so that word can be recalibrated into something more reasonable…
Nalia White
Tencus
#48 - 2011-11-22 17:12:22 UTC
i mean i have an alt mining but more than a look every 5 minutes is too much effort for me oO seriously...

someone actively mining??? never heard of that, how boring is that?

Syndicate - K5-JRD

Home to few, graveyard for many

My biggest achievement
Lexmana
#49 - 2011-11-22 17:22:55 UTC
Reality check!!!

It is a old harsh universe out there full of pirates and the likes. Thats what we are all taught early in our lives isn't it? Should you really feel safe out there? I mean, can understand your feelings if you took precautions and equipped yourself with a strong sturdy combat ship with guns and all ... but a thin industrial can with severely limited offensive and defensive capabilities such as a a mining barge .... what were you thinking?
Severian Carnifex
#50 - 2011-11-22 17:24:38 UTC
Nalia White wrote:
i mean i have an alt mining but more than a look every 5 minutes is too much effort for me oO seriously...

someone actively mining??? never heard of that, how boring is that?


Reporting for duty... Big smile
more then one account of course...
if I don't have hulk alts i would not mine with only one acc... no ISK in that...
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2011-11-22 17:39:38 UTC
sigh, one of these threads again?

I have more space likes than you. 
Ezurae
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-11-22 17:42:10 UTC
your point?

with insurance it costs even less to gank right now. so what exactly are you crying or partying about??
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#53 - 2011-11-22 17:46:25 UTC
I did a quick bit of eft whoring to see what kind of tank you could get in a hulk without going all faction pimped, and the numbers were fairly interesting:

Using a maelstrom as a base of reference (I CBA to look for the version with the new BCs yet, but it's the same damage so w/e) I see that with perfect skills, you can get a volley of just under 12k, with a refire rate of ~14 seconds overloaded (wrt suicide ganks using overloaded mods makes sense, on both sides)

A hulk, with 2 invulns, an em hardener, a DC II, PDS II and 2 CDFE Is gets ~25k EHP, 15k of that being in shields. This is without overloading, or any gang bonuses. It then takes 2 volleys for a single Tornado to kill a single hulk, making it impossible in higher end highsec.

But what if there's more than 1? Well, obviously in such a scenario, it would be many vs 1 person, in which case you probably SHOULD die, if you're not aligned out and don't notice the group of gank ships landing on grid. If you bring along some friends, the numbers will once again side with you:
Bring in a leadership tengu and suddenly you can survive TWO 1400mm gankers (you'll have enough shields to take in a volley from 2 and STILL have shields left over if you overload your hardeners)

You also have the option of bringing in logi support, asa single scimi can counter 2-3 1400mm gank ships with ease, with everyone overloading you're looking at a 4700 DPS tank on any hulk getting the 4 reps, so the only problem is if they bring enough to volley through your 25k ehp shields, but once you're at the point where you're facing those sorts of numbers, you're already costing the gankers more than the value of their ships anyway. (3 tornados will cost more than a hulk with the insurance being removed, as sisi stats suggest they will cost about the same as tier 1 BSs)
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-11-22 18:13:59 UTC
CCP giveth and CCP taketh away. Smile
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2011-11-22 18:27:02 UTC
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman wrote:
CCP giveth and CCP taketh away. Smile


And the new insurance situation should result in less ISK inflation, a nice bonus.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#56 - 2011-11-22 22:38:52 UTC
bornaa wrote:

or less then 1km...


Do a little math, and then write...


But most belts are set up so that the roids aren't more than 22km away anyway. What difference does 1 or 10km make? You don't have to buy the T2 if you don't want it.
Brusanan
Free State Project
#57 - 2011-11-22 22:59:45 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
your doing it wrong if u need a tier 3 bc to gank a hulk..... check out the destroyer buff on sisi

This.

I don't plan on wasting a Tier 3 BC on anything smaller than an Orca.
Jita Alt666
#58 - 2011-11-22 23:01:46 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
I did a quick bit of eft whoring to see what kind of tank you could get in a hulk without going all faction pimped, and the numbers were fairly interesting:

Using a maelstrom as a base of reference (I CBA to look for the version with the new BCs yet, but it's the same damage so w/e) I see that with perfect skills, you can get a volley of just under 12k, with a refire rate of ~14 seconds overloaded (wrt suicide ganks using overloaded mods makes sense, on both sides)

A hulk, with 2 invulns, an em hardener, a DC II, PDS II and 2 CDFE Is gets ~25k EHP, 15k of that being in shields. This is without overloading, or any gang bonuses. It then takes 2 volleys for a single Tornado to kill a single hulk, making it impossible in higher end highsec.

But what if there's more than 1? Well, obviously in such a scenario, it would be many vs 1 person, in which case you probably SHOULD die, if you're not aligned out and don't notice the group of gank ships landing on grid. If you bring along some friends, the numbers will once again side with you:
Bring in a leadership tengu and suddenly you can survive TWO 1400mm gankers (you'll have enough shields to take in a volley from 2 and STILL have shields left over if you overload your hardeners)

You also have the option of bringing in logi support, asa single scimi can counter 2-3 1400mm gank ships with ease, with everyone overloading you're looking at a 4700 DPS tank on any hulk getting the 4 reps, so the only problem is if they bring enough to volley through your 25k ehp shields, but once you're at the point where you're facing those sorts of numbers, you're already costing the gankers more than the value of their ships anyway. (3 tornados will cost more than a hulk with the insurance being removed, as sisi stats suggest they will cost about the same as tier 1 BSs)


Use Implants: +6% shield capacity +6% shield recharge +6% armour +10% power grid
Drop the PDS for an MAPC
Drop one Invul for a MSEII

Wow now you have 34k EHP.

Upgrade the CDFEs to T2 and now you got 36K EHP.

Now anyone who wants to gank you has to have friends s/he is willing to sacrifice. If they mistime things you will cause the deaths of 100mil-120mil of gankers goods for no gain.
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