Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Much easier to balance a module than a ship. Ships have base stats, skill-based bonuses, role bonuses, slot count and fittings. Modules just have stats, and all modules in a group are affected by the same skills (except some T2 modules which require "specialisation" skills).

The same effort that goes into balancing one ship could perhaps be used to balance an entire category of modules (e.g.: 800mm auto cannons).

I agree with the basic principle of Scatim's OP. As an example, ECM pilots have always been amused to see that meta 4 variants of ECM modules are far superior to T2. But then back in the day, meta4 variants were rare and expensive. These days they drop like candy. So there is scope to rebalance the meta-levels by improving the scarcity of meta 2-4.

In module lines where a "specialisation" skill is available (e.g.: weapons), I'd like to see the module worse than the meta4 variant at skill level 1, but better than the empire faction variant at skill level 5. Thus a T2 weapon with specialisation trained to 5 would perform better than the "Navy" variant. Then the pirate faction, deadspace and officer variants would be better still.

Of course this leaves the discussion of "better". In some cases, "better" could simply mean "requires less PG or CPU." Thus a pirate faction cruise missile launcher might have less DPS than a T2-with-level-5 variant, but since it requires lower CPU to fit you can add an extra BCS to the ship to get more DPS (and you can get even more CPU by using the pirate faction BCS instead of the T2). In other cases "better" might mean larger magazine size, lower reload time, higher rate of fire, bigger damage multiplier, more HP, lower overheat penalty, better overheat performance, etc.

PS: I'd also like to see the ability for capsuleer to invent/reverse engineer meta 1-4 variants.

Another problem is that a lot of modules really only have a single relevant stat - so there is no way to 'metacide' them. For items that have multiple effects, you could of course skew them from one stat to the other, but that is the case for the minority of items.

That's a nice idea. But but I don't think it actually solves the problem.

Using your disruptors as an example, I can't see anyone using anything but meta 2 for its longer range.
- Meta 4 seems useless. Anyone who fits stabs fits at least 2. If you want to catch a stabbed vessel, you go with 3 point scrams (true sansha scrambler already has 3 points).
- Meta 1 is probably going to be avoided by people who sacrifice fitting elsewhere so they can fit the good disruptor.
- Meta 3. Jack of all trades, master of none.
- T2. Worse than meta 2 in everything that matters.

Unless you only ever undock in a shuttle or a freighter, this isn't really true, since the imbalances and flaws that cause you to reflexively dismiss buying or using most of the available modules or rigs are exactly the kind of issues that metacide would be aimed at fixing.

I accept that CCP will take a while to PROPERLY rebalance stuff,
I'd still like to see all T2 mods being better than ALL their meta variants... (I'm looking at you - ewar, and MWD's)

right you are - though I don't think they should use MORE cap, just have a higher cap penalty (if applicable), and use more PG/CPU

also - T2 can't take as much heat as T1/meta items - because they're higher tech and more fragile?

I agree that meta modules should have uses compared to each other - but I think that training time sink and harder fitting is enough penalty for T2, a penalty that meta items wouldn't get (in my vision)

EDIT

I think that T2 should be all-round better than T1 - if you can fit it
(just to clarify - this is what I think and it is a personal belief, with relatively little though behind it...)

Mirroring that theme for ship balancing to the modules as well would certainly be one way to take things (although "T2 is more specialised, not just better" seems to be slipping away in recent ship balancing changes). The uselessness of many faction modules within the range is another standout issue within module balance.

slipping indeed ... vagabond comes to mind when comparing it to the stabber... and ofc EAF's..

Indeed. For module types where there is only 1 attribute, the available modules would need either to be consolidated into fewer variations, or have more attributes added to them. The first of those two options is the more sensible for the most part.