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A Permanent fix to a long standing problem: Node crashing

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Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#201 - 2013-12-17 05:39:29 UTC
What causes all the socket closed errors? Because with no client update for the past few days, no fleet wars anywhere near me, and only 5 other ppl in my system, I've experienced more than 20 of those in the past few hours to the point where I've given up now and am just going to try to play again tomorrow. My internet connection is stable and I've made no changes to my system.

Does this mean a crash is imminent?

YK
CM 6unk
Perkone
Caldari State
#202 - 2013-12-17 05:52:55 UTC
CCP !!!! WERE YOU ANY CCP POSTER !!!!!!!!??????? really its start to f noise
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#203 - 2013-12-17 05:57:12 UTC
Could something in the SOV mechanic be changed so you can attack 4 different place with 500 ships instead of always kinda having to attack 1 place with 2k ships? We all know the server are not getting any better any time soon but we make some objectives achievable by less ships so the force of an invader/defender can be divided up in many different system thus potentially different nodes? Making it so ship engaged in some place can't just jump to another place in the nick of time in the same way as an armored division can't travel across a country to keep plugging holes on a complete battlefront?

The current war dynamic looks like the WWII eastern front to me right now with 2 behemoth army clashing with the excepting that both side are able to focus ALL of their force on a single focal point because it's completely useless to spread on the whole front. Can you imagine how much worst battle like Stalingrad would of been if neither side actually had to man the whole eastern front at the same time?

Doesn't that seems broken to any of you people from the war thorn part of this universe?
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#204 - 2013-12-17 06:02:11 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Could something in the SOV mechanic be changed so you can attack 4 different place with 500 ships instead of always kinda having to attack 1 place with 2k ships? We all know the server are not getting any better any time soon but we make some objectives achievable by less ships so the force of an invader/defender can be divided up in many different system thus potentially different nodes? Making it so ship engaged in some place can't just jump to another place in the nick of time in the same way as an armored division can't travel across a country to keep plugging holes on a complete battlefront?

The current war dynamic looks like the WWII eastern front to me right now with 2 behemoth army clashing with the excepting that both side are able to focus ALL of their force on a single focal point because it's completely useless to spread on the whole front. Can you imagine how much worst battle like Stalingrad would of been if neither side actually had to man the whole eastern front at the same time?

Doesn't that seems broken to any of you people from the war thorn part of this universe?


This is what a lot of people have been saying for well over 2 years now and CCP is all like: "Well..uh yeah we're gonna look at that sometime soon like uh...maybe winter 2014"

In the meantime people are talking about putting 500 dreads on a grid and 200 titans. This game is soo screwed right now Oops
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#205 - 2013-12-17 06:15:36 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Could something in the SOV mechanic be changed so you can attack 4 different place with 500 ships instead of always kinda having to attack 1 place with 2k ships? We all know the server are not getting any better any time soon but we make some objectives achievable by less ships so the force of an invader/defender can be divided up in many different system thus potentially different nodes? Making it so ship engaged in some place can't just jump to another place in the nick of time in the same way as an armored division can't travel across a country to keep plugging holes on a complete battlefront?

The current war dynamic looks like the WWII eastern front to me right now with 2 behemoth army clashing with the excepting that both side are able to focus ALL of their force on a single focal point because it's completely useless to spread on the whole front. Can you imagine how much worst battle like Stalingrad would of been if neither side actually had to man the whole eastern front at the same time?

Doesn't that seems broken to any of you people from the war thorn part of this universe?


This is what a lot of people have been saying for well over 2 years now and CCP is all like: "Well..uh yeah we're gonna look at that sometime soon like uh...maybe winter 2014"

In the meantime people are talking about putting 500 dreads on a grid and 200 titans. This game is soo screwed right now Oops


A system similar to civilization games where the border of your empire expand but based on activity maybe. But then people would ***** about it being PvE while happily ignoring the fact that basing it around PvP only means the other side can stop your expansion forever as long as they dock up...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#206 - 2013-12-17 06:15:41 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Could something in the SOV mechanic be changed so you can attack 4 different place with 500 ships instead of always kinda having to attack 1 place with 2k ships? We all know the server are not getting any better any time soon but we make some objectives achievable by less ships so the force of an invader/defender can be divided up in many different system thus potentially different nodes? Making it so ship engaged in some place can't just jump to another place in the nick of time in the same way as an armored division can't travel across a country to keep plugging holes on a complete battlefront?
Making things achievable in fewer ships won't help much on its own, nor does spreading them out. Just because you can do it in fewer ships doesn't mean people will — hell, you can take sov solo as it is right now, but it's just more efficient (and safe) to throw everything at it.

It has to involved timing (not just timers) and diminishing returns to get that kind of result: where bringing 500 ships rather than 50 is a waste of 450 ships that could do something better at the same time, and that “something better” has to beat the job of just sticking around as escort and protection. This is a fairly tricky thing to design.

In addition, this “better off elsewhere” mechanic has to be double-sided. If the attacker has to go after 10 spots at once to take the system, and the defender only has to make them fail at one of those spots, then they'll just blob one spot after another until the attackers are gone. This is even trickier to design properly.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#207 - 2013-12-17 06:24:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Could something in the SOV mechanic be changed so you can attack 4 different place with 500 ships instead of always kinda having to attack 1 place with 2k ships? We all know the server are not getting any better any time soon but we make some objectives achievable by less ships so the force of an invader/defender can be divided up in many different system thus potentially different nodes? Making it so ship engaged in some place can't just jump to another place in the nick of time in the same way as an armored division can't travel across a country to keep plugging holes on a complete battlefront?
Making things achievable in fewer ships won't help much on its own, nor does spreading them out. Just because you can do it in fewer ships doesn't mean people will — hell, you can take sov solo as it is right now, but it's just more efficient (and safe) to throw everything at it.

It has to involved timing (not just timers) and diminishing returns to get that kind of result: where bringing 500 ships rather than 50 is a waste of 450 ships that could do something better at the same time, and that “something better” has to beat the job of just sticking around as escort and protection. This is a fairly tricky thing to design.

In addition, this “better off elsewhere” mechanic has to be double-sided. If the attacker has to go after 10 spots at once to take the system, and the defender only has to make them fail at one of those spots, then they'll just blob one spot after another until the attackers are gone. This is even trickier to design properly.


So basically, projection is too easy and prevent multiple front battle from being a thing. The fact that you can't really outmaneuver a capital fleet in the grand scheme of things on a strategic level instead of on the tactical level speaks volume imo. The u-boat could do damage in the Atlantic because the royal navy could not be everywhere at all time. Both side's royal navy seems to be 20 mins away from any point of the whole theater of war ATM. I've never pretended to be a specialist on the matter but this looks like it effectively remove a lot of depth in the strategic play. Can anyone do something meaningful while also tying the enemy's fleet on another point? It does not seem possible to me under the current rule set...
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2013-12-17 06:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Nancy Crow wrote:
So to take/defend any system, all I need to do is get 1000 people in system first? Sounds great!

Let's face it, it's pretty much the same atm, except that number of people you must get into system is limited not by arbitrary number, but by amount that crashes the node given known amount of activity each member will perform.
Granted, you won't be able to take systems like that, only "defend". Sorta.

The real solution is to make spreading forces useful in some cases. And no, I don't have a clue how.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#209 - 2013-12-17 07:40:18 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
There will never in our life time be a non crashable fight in Null sec. As it is you can crash the node on a command. How is this good ? I can already limit the number of players to a system just by crashing the node. With one command I can crash the node. So tell me what is the difference between limiting the number of players to a system any different ?

I believe you have hit the nail on the head with this post.

Your Idea trades one problem for another.
This issue is important to CCP, however this thread does not seem to be going anywhere.
Re-stating your opinion without backing up your starements, does not make it the best solution.

I will now be locking this thread as nothing constructive has come from 11 pages of posts.
( also to prevent trolling and off topic posts. )

ISD Gallifreyan

Lt. Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCL)

Interstellar Services Department
ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#210 - 2013-12-17 08:42:18 UTC
After a complaint that I locked this thread pre-maturely, I have decided to re-open it for the time being.
I will look into this thread tomorrow. If nothing constructive has come of it. I will re-lock it.

The OP has stated he has posted his last coment on this already, and while open discussion is allowed, repeating the same statement over and over would fall under either of the following Forum Rules.

Quote:
12. Spamming is prohibited.

Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words “first”, “go back to ********” and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post.

22. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.

ISD Gallifreyan

Lt. Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCL)

Interstellar Services Department
Dextrome Thorphan
#211 - 2013-12-17 08:47:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Log in 1000 alts into system.

Invincible defense force, impossible to take system.


Sure "just" log in 1000 alts... all you need to do is spend $15000 per month and your system is completely defended, too easy!!!
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#212 - 2013-12-17 08:56:43 UTC
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Log in 1000 alts into system.

Invincible defense force, impossible to take system.


Sure "just" log in 1000 alts... all you need to do is spend $15000 per month and your system is completely defended, too easy!!!

Get 1000 bloc members to roll trial alts and fly them to the target system.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#213 - 2013-12-17 09:13:45 UTC
For goodness sake, no more sticky plaster fixes please! CCP, you really need to address the elephant in the room, which (imho) is the coalition blobfest.

Throwing a suggestion into the mix:

External alliance standings become none operational in null space - everyone outside your alliance is thus displayed as neutral The bloated sheep coalitions become a thing of the past, blue JB networks collapse which limits force projection, a segment of the player population might grow some balls and the nodes are given an easy time.

Corp membership maximum numbers are already capped by skills to (6300 iirc) and no doubt some sheep will dogpile into one or more corps within an existing coalition alliance. CCP would probably have to rebalance the corp/alliance management skills to make this suggestion work.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#214 - 2013-12-17 09:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: tiberiusric
Tippia wrote:
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
Well for my last post like every other post that makes a good idea about how to fix the game ( less you speak about rewriting some mystery code ) lol , It either 1. gets trolled by the players that have the most to loose
Really? In what way have you been trolled? You've been asked to support your innumerable assertions with facts and evidence and arguments, and you have been asked questions about how you think your idea will work. Just because you've been utterly and completely unable to answer any of those doesn't mean you've been trolled — just that you've been incompetent.



Quote:
Let CCP know when and where the next large battle will take place at least 1 day before so that no one person ( alliance ) ( corp ) can crash the node.
No one person can crash the node as it is, and forewarning CCP of fights does not preclude a node crash.




I think he meant one person giving the order to crash the node, rather than literately one person can crash the node.
personally as I have said before, you keep on insisting that eve should be on one server world, thats the problem, every other mmo work on multiple instances for a reason. One so that no one group can take up all the resources and secondly to reduce performance and lag problems.

If eve must be on one server (and i personally think now is the time to reconsider but thats my opinion) then its needs some serious investment and work.

Infrastrucuture, multi threading and rewriting and optimising old code and database functions. Thats where I would start to look at. Perhaps the technology just isnt up to it? There is no point fixing it for the now, needs to be future proof also. I would be more than happy for CCP to use the summer 2014 expansion on fixing this fully and sov mechanics. I mean it will need serious focus and attention. Eve : Phoenix Rising? Perhaps then ill go back to 0.0 Lol

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#215 - 2013-12-17 09:52:41 UTC
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Log in 1000 alts into system.

Invincible defense force, impossible to take system.


Sure "just" log in 1000 alts... all you need to do is spend $15000 per month and your system is completely defended, too easy!!!

Yeah, because we can't just do this on free character slots.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#216 - 2013-12-17 09:58:21 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Log in 1000 alts into system.

Invincible defense force, impossible to take system.


Sure "just" log in 1000 alts... all you need to do is spend $15000 per month and your system is completely defended, too easy!!!

Yeah, because we can't just do this on free character slots.


You have a free slot Blink

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Dextrome Thorphan
#217 - 2013-12-17 10:00:41 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Log in 1000 alts into system.

Invincible defense force, impossible to take system.


Sure "just" log in 1000 alts... all you need to do is spend $15000 per month and your system is completely defended, too easy!!!

Get 1000 bloc members to roll trial alts and fly them to the target system.


Oh damn I just got burned xD

Yes, I shamefully admit I didn't think of that :p
Dextrome Thorphan
#218 - 2013-12-17 10:02:23 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Log in 1000 alts into system.

Invincible defense force, impossible to take system.


Sure "just" log in 1000 alts... all you need to do is spend $15000 per month and your system is completely defended, too easy!!!

Yeah, because we can't just do this on free character slots.

This doesn't make any sense though...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#219 - 2013-12-17 11:18:32 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Log in 1000 alts into system.

Invincible defense force, impossible to take system.


Sure "just" log in 1000 alts... all you need to do is spend $15000 per month and your system is completely defended, too easy!!!

Yeah, because we can't just do this on free character slots.


You have a free slot Blink

Across my two accounts, three of my characters are for total fluff and one is just a cyno alt. Only two of them do I actually use in-game for more than that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#220 - 2013-12-17 11:37:59 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
If eve must be on one server

It's not. Please don't suggest patently silly things, like "CCP just needs to re-write the whole game!" when you seemingly haven't taken the few seconds it would require to look up the basics of how TQ works.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,