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T2 Invention
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#21 - 2013-12-04 00:10:22 UTC
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:
Hi, I have few more questions.

1. In database dump, in invBlueprintTypes table there is researchCopyTime.
Just to confirm if I understand eve-id.net correctly, if researchCopyTime is 9000 and maxProductionLimit is 300 then it takes 9000 seconds to create 1 BPC with 150 copies or 10 BPCs with 15 copies each (modified by Science, slot and implants), right?

2. Do I have to invent BPCs one by one or can I queue for example 20 1-run BPCs for invention?

3. The same with T2 production, if I have BPCs that are manufactured in short time, will I lose a lot of slot time by logging only once per day?

4. Does copying BPOs require any skills beside Science? I consider creating BPCs for future invention while skills are trained.

Thanks!


3 is one reason I try to keep a quite wide range of BPCs on hand.

I log on before and after work, and frequently miss mornings and occasionally miss nights, but if I know in advance, I'll consider this information when deciding what to build.

As an example, I won't queue a job of 10 Ogre II (13 hours) at 9pm, because I know I'll be at work at 10am, unless Ogre IIs are so profitable that it is worth tying up a production line for 21-22 hours. Instead I might build something that takes 8 hours, and then when I log on before work, put something else in.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#22 - 2013-12-05 11:49:54 UTC
I've just started a copy job for a ship module.
Found station with 7 days wait time, selected 300 as runs per copy and 20 as number of copies.
It seems I cannot create more than 20 BPCs (300-run each) in one go, the job will take around 9 days.
Is this expected? Where does this number (20) come from?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-12-05 12:51:37 UTC
Correct, you can make 20 copies at most in a single job. That's another hard limit on jobs.
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#24 - 2013-12-16 11:22:07 UTC
A question again.
What is an exact formula for material waste due to production efficiency skill?
I've found conflicting data, equations I've found disagree mostly on rounding.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#25 - 2013-12-16 23:01:55 UTC
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:
A question again.
What is an exact formula for material waste due to production efficiency skill?
I've found conflicting data, equations I've found disagree mostly on rounding.



PE skill works as follows:

Level 0: 20% waste (in addition to any blueprint waste, I believe these stack multiplicatively and then are rounded)
1: 16% waste
2: 12% waste
3: 8%
4: 4%
5: No waste

I believe these are rounded 'honestly' i.e 11.48 rounds to 11, 11.51 rounds to 12, 11.5 rounds to 12. Note that PE 5 is pretty much essential for building anything where the material costs are more important that the time cost (i.e. most things other than tech 2 ammo and low value tech 2 modules; PE 4 is fine to start with on those).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-12-17 03:15:46 UTC
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:
A question again.
What is an exact formula for material waste due to production efficiency skill?
I've found conflicting data, equations I've found disagree mostly on rounding.
Sabriz is wrong on this one.

1. The waste from the blueprint and your skills stack additively, this skews a lot of calculations if you ignore it.
2. The "perfect" number on blueprints indicates how much you would need to produce this blueprint with perfect skills. I.e. the "perfect" number still includes blueprint waste. To find the base material cost, you have to divide the perfect number by the waste. (Or look it up on the web.)
3. After that, each missing level of PE adds another 5% waste. (So, 0% at lvl 5, 5% at lvl 1, ..., 25% at lvl 0). The skill says that it reduces waste by 4%, which is misleading. It kinda makes sense because 1.25 - 4% = 1.2, but it's only an approximation for higher levels. If you have 2.5% blueprint waste and PE 2, you have a total waste of 2.5% + 15%, so you must multiply the base material cost with 1.175.
4. Extra materials are weird and somewhat bugged, I'll skip those.

With those informations, lets look at an example:
Abaddon blueprint, Base Isogen amount required: 194.850
Ex ME 50 BPC (ME 50 = 10/(50+1)% waste = 0.196078...%)
"Perfect" PE 5 = 194850*1.00196078 = 195232.06, rounded down.
PE 3 = 194850*1.10196078 = 214717.06, rounded down.
PE 0 = 194850*1.25196078 = 243944.56, rounded up.

Ex ME 0 BPC (ME 0 = 10/1 % waste = 10%)
"Perfect" PE 5 = 194850 * 1.10 = 214335
PE 3 = 194850 * 1.20 = 233820
PE 0 = 194850 * 1.35 = 263047.5, rounded up.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#27 - 2013-12-17 09:10:28 UTC
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/2012/10/24/eve-sde-sql-blueprint-details/

Full details for blueprint numbers are in there. granted, it's in relation to the data you pull out of the SDE, but that's the only data that doesn't already include waste. It's not possible to pull the numbers out of Eve directly (well, not without a /great/ deal of ME research Blink )

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#28 - 2013-12-17 11:41:24 UTC
@Steve: Thanks, I used your blog posts to create my spreadsheets and SQL queries but I'm confused when it comes to PE - how exactly do you round it?
Example: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/0/31201/0/5/0/5
with PE lvl 4 it shows waste of 1 Tripped Power Circuit

From the equation, the waste on it should be: 4*(0.25-0.5*4)=0.2
But your site rounds it up to 1.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#29 - 2013-12-17 12:58:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
I'm applying the rounding at the very last step

So it's
round(perfect+(perfect*(wasteFactor/(Blueprint ME+1))/100)+(perfect*(0.25-(0.05*Production Efficiency))))


I don't have any PE 4 character to check if that's giving the right number though.

(all the math is in https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/blueprint.js, which should be /fairly/ readable)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#30 - 2013-12-17 13:00:43 UTC
That explains it, thanks.
I'll check it in game once I start training another production alt.
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