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How much longer CCP?
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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#1 - 2013-12-17 07:12:45 UTC
How much longer do you intend to ignore all the real issues with your game?

Your band-aid solution to lag is , to put it mildly, crap.
You seem to have no plan for bringing in new players, and I think you've probably hit the limit on milking your existing customers with your non-stop push to get more alts.
Game not responding to control input. This is becoming a real annoyance, when you click something, most people generally expect it to work the first time.
85 pages on the gate warp tunnel, and you seem incapable of adding something as simple as a toggle switch.

I actually liked a few features on the latest patch, and some of the balancing has been long overdue, but there are more pressing matters.
All you have to do is look at eve-offline.net to see how much of a failure the last patch was, the bump was anemic at best, and numbers are falling off quickly. Even your 99 cent alt sale seems to have had little effect.
You can claim that everything is fine, and subscriptions are growing, but since you don't share that data, people can only go by activity, and activity has clearly dropped off. If their weren't a major war in 0.0, i wonder how much worse online numbers would be?

Get back to working on game play CCP, you've spent far too much time on shiny pictures and it's beginning to show.


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2 - 2013-12-17 07:23:08 UTC
Why do we need to keep having growth, where does it say this is a necessary thing at all. It's mostly just clowns who don't really understand how stuff works making it an important statistic, or managers who's short term bonuses are based on said growth but in reality it means fck all.

So yeah, yet another useless post by you.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#3 - 2013-12-17 07:37:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
We don't need to keep having growth, but there is a pretty obvious correlation between growth and revenue, and likewise between revenue and development resources.

I'm no economist, but I'd be willing to wager that the cost of making games is only going up. Take labor costs as a small part of it. They can't raise the subscription price on us to pay their staff if the industry's salary standards go up, so the only answer is to get more subscriptions. Eventually there's a ceiling where they can't afford to continue paying the staff they have, and will (assuming no adjustments to the budget) either lose employees to layoffs or resignations. That's just a small part of it though, and I'm sure there are many other costs associated with it, including servers, real estate (for offices), advertising, and other associated things.

Our $15 a month subscription doesn't change with the rest of the economy. It stays the same. The only way to make more money off the same game is to get more people playing it. Right now, it seems CCP is managing to do this with a steady but slow growth pattern that appears sustainable from the outsider's perspective. They're still turning a profit, and they're still able to hold these ever larger fanfests. However, we've also seen two or three major layoff rounds in the last two years. I don't think those are a very good sign.

Granted, I have no real numbers on hand to back any of what I'm saying. I just figure it's a good idea to make sure EVE keeps growing to support the growing cost of it.

That said, OP is full of ****.

Katrina Oniseki
Prince Kobol
#4 - 2013-12-17 07:44:09 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
How much longer do you intend to ignore all the real issues with your game?

Your band-aid solution to lag is , to put it mildly, crap.
You seem to have no plan for bringing in new players, and I think you've probably hit the limit on milking your existing customers with your non-stop push to get more alts.
Game not responding to control input. This is becoming a real annoyance, when you click something, most people generally expect it to work the first time.
85 pages on the gate warp tunnel, and you seem incapable of adding something as simple as a toggle switch.

I actually liked a few features on the latest patch, and some of the balancing has been long overdue, but there are more pressing matters.
All you have to do is look at eve-offline.net to see how much of a failure the last patch was, the bump was anemic at best, and numbers are falling off quickly. Even your 99 cent alt sale seems to have had little effect.
You can claim that everything is fine, and subscriptions are growing, but since you don't share that data, people can only go by activity, and activity has clearly dropped off. If their weren't a major war in 0.0, i wonder how much worse online numbers would be?

Get back to working on game play CCP, you've spent far too much time on shiny pictures and it's beginning to show.





I completely agree but as I have said before, I truly believe that when it comes to the major issues and missing features such as
Lag,
Sov Mechanics,
Null Sec Industry or the lack of it
Being able to earn more isk in HS with little to no risk then in Null / LS
PoS's
Destructible Stations
RIng Mining
Drone Mechanics / Performance Issues
Corp Management UI
Alliance Tax

I believe it is a combination of CCP not having the resources and simply not knowing how to fix these problems.

I understanding CCP wanting to develop other games however it should not be at the expenses of Eve and I personally feel that is what is starting to happen.

As for growth, well it is nice to have as people will tend not to invest in a game where the PCU / subs whatever you want to call it, is a decline.

Growth is a good indicator of the health of a game.

When you look at Eve's PCU count for this year, whilst I wouldn't be running for the hills just yet, it isn't exactly inspiring.

It would be interesting to see the PCU graph for 2012 to do a side by side comparison with 2013.
GreenSeed
#5 - 2013-12-17 07:45:07 UTC
eve is dying, this time for real™.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#6 - 2013-12-17 07:45:36 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
How much longer do you intend to ignore all the real issues with your game?

Your band-aid solution to lag is , to put it mildly, crap.
You seem to have no plan for bringing in new players, and I think you've probably hit the limit on milking your existing customers with your non-stop push to get more alts.
Game not responding to control input. This is becoming a real annoyance, when you click something, most people generally expect it to work the first time.
85 pages on the gate warp tunnel, and you seem incapable of adding something as simple as a toggle switch.

I actually liked a few features on the latest patch, and some of the balancing has been long overdue, but there are more pressing matters.
All you have to do is look at eve-offline.net to see how much of a failure the last patch was, the bump was anemic at best, and numbers are falling off quickly. Even your 99 cent alt sale seems to have had little effect.
You can claim that everything is fine, and subscriptions are growing, but since you don't share that data, people can only go by activity, and activity has clearly dropped off. If their weren't a major war in 0.0, i wonder how much worse online numbers would be?

Get back to working on game play CCP, you've spent far too much time on shiny pictures and it's beginning to show.




It still is early to test Rubicon's performance. But i will +1 the performance issues, just hope it can be fixed with the usual ironing of new code (DX11 client).

As for growth, I've talked extensively on the issue and CCP already made their minds so there is not much to add. We've spent 2 years pointing CCP the obvious fact that CCP is hampering EVE growth by not investing on the missing front of avatar content and spreading resources too thin (again). The Hallelujah Plan for space content looks short-sighted at best by appealing to extend nullsec gameplay to the expense of everyone else. And the competition is out there, doing their stuff and trying to take some of EVE's cake.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-12-17 07:56:47 UTC
So fact is that everytime CCP raises the limit of people who can paticipate in battles, even larger coalitions form and press the game to the new limit.

With this in mind, am I the only one seeing the utter irony of OP complaining about lag in fleetsfights that are bigger than ever before, while at the same time pointing out that the game is dying because og a declining population? Because when more and more people leave, more and more show up at fights!?

Stop bringing so many people to fights, hardware has its limits no matter how much you complain, and EVE players show time after time that its pointless to upgrade as theyw ill just push the new limit. Back when some of us started a 100 man fight was unbearable because og lag. (anyone remember pressing you MWD by accident, just to see it eat your cap and then go on for another 15-20 min?) That puts the amazing machinery behind eve we got now in perspective.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2013-12-17 07:59:26 UTC
EVE is still growing.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#9 - 2013-12-17 08:00:58 UTC
Grunanca wrote:
With this in mind, am I the only one seeing the utter irony of OP complaining about lag in fleetsfights that are bigger than ever before, while at the same time pointing out that the game is dying because og a declining population? Because when more and more people leave, more and more show up at fights!?

only a small portion of players

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#10 - 2013-12-17 08:22:30 UTC
+1 to remove jump animation.


'nuff said,my job here is done

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !
Dextrome Thorphan
#11 - 2013-12-17 08:23:58 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
I completely agree but as I have said before, I truly believe that when it comes to the major issues and missing features such as
Lag,
Sov Mechanics,
Null Sec Industry or the lack of it
Being able to earn more isk in HS with little to no risk then in Null / LS
PoS's
Destructible Stations
RIng Mining
Drone Mechanics / Performance Issues
Corp Management UI
Alliance Tax

I believe it is a combination of CCP not having the resources and simply not knowing how to fix these problems.

I understanding CCP wanting to develop other games however it should not be at the expenses of Eve and I personally feel that is what is starting to happen..


Starting to happen? It started years ago :(
CCP clearly doesn't rly give a fck anymore about EVE itself.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-12-17 08:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
lol 6 of the 9 things you listed relate directly to null, the others are generic. One is complete rubbish (HS isk > Null isk). Considering 70% of subscribers are not in nullsec I'd say that list is a little silly.

CCP need to give players what they want. Not the 10% of people in null sec but the 90% in high, low and wormholes and the countless people that would subscribe if it wasn't pure alliance combat / ganking.

1. Rein in the ganking catalysts.
2. Fix sov so you can't monopolize all of null sec with timers and lag.
3. ADD a walking in stations, make it interesting, casino's, proper quarters, a decent array of bling, no open to senseless alt ganking if its pvp areas.
4. Fix all the bugs and old terrible features like the drone interface.
5. Change the way combat occurs (spawn camping is not a fun way to engage in pvp).
6. Diminishing returns on damage. 100 ships shooting one ship is stupid.

I think the majority of people really don't care at all about what 10% (the minority) of the subscribers care about, epeening sov and metagaming.

If CCP concentrates on the majority of players and gives up their 10 year failed quest to turn us all into fleeting F1 dweebs they'll get a lot more subs then they are currently getting and lose a lot less.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-12-17 08:44:34 UTC
Posting in yet another fail EVE is dying thread.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Jove Death
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-12-17 08:52:43 UTC
There internal customer support is the whole problem.

THEY ONLY LISTEN TO WHAT THEY WANT TO LISTEN TO.

Get over it

Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek.
Sevendeadly Sins
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-12-17 08:53:43 UTC
inb4 locked

http://www.zombo.com
Prince Kobol
#16 - 2013-12-17 10:03:28 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
lol 6 of the 9 things you listed relate directly to null, the others are generic. One is complete rubbish (HS isk > Null isk). Considering 70% of subscribers are not in nullsec I'd say that list is a little silly.

CCP need to give players what they want. Not the 10% of people in null sec but the 90% in high, low and wormholes and the countless people that would subscribe if it wasn't pure alliance combat / ganking.

1. Rein in the ganking catalysts.
2. Fix sov so you can't monopolize all of null sec with timers and lag.
3. ADD a walking in stations, make it interesting, casino's, proper quarters, a decent array of bling, no open to senseless alt ganking if its pvp areas.
4. Fix all the bugs and old terrible features like the drone interface.
5. Change the way combat occurs (spawn camping is not a fun way to engage in pvp).
6. Diminishing returns on damage. 100 ships shooting one ship is stupid.

I think the majority of people really don't care at all about what 10% (the minority) of the subscribers care about, epeening sov and metagaming.

If CCP concentrates on the majority of players and gives up their 10 year failed quest to turn us all into fleeting F1 dweebs they'll get a lot more subs then they are currently getting and lose a lot less.


Once again you post utter rubbish, does it come naturally to you or do you sit in front of computer all day and practice?
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2013-12-17 10:04:37 UTC
We can only hope that DUST514 and Valkyrie soon will be able to be self sufficient. The expansions just seem so much lighter than before. Imo the 5 road plan they have should be put in 2 tops.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Prince Kobol
#18 - 2013-12-17 10:06:57 UTC
Grunanca wrote:
So fact is that everytime CCP raises the limit of people who can paticipate in battles, even larger coalitions form and press the game to the new limit.

With this in mind, am I the only one seeing the utter irony of OP complaining about lag in fleetsfights that are bigger than ever before, while at the same time pointing out that the game is dying because og a declining population? Because when more and more people leave, more and more show up at fights!?

Stop bringing so many people to fights, hardware has its limits no matter how much you complain, and EVE players show time after time that its pointless to upgrade as theyw ill just push the new limit. Back when some of us started a 100 man fight was unbearable because og lag. (anyone remember pressing you MWD by accident, just to see it eat your cap and then go on for another 15-20 min?) That puts the amazing machinery behind eve we got now in perspective.




So is 200 people a lot these days?

I have been in fleets of less then 100 people and TiDi has kicked in by doing something as simple as undocking.

I have been in fleets of under 100, local under 300, sitting stationary on a gate doing nothing and TiDi has kicked in because a couple of reds have uncloaked and launched bombs.

If lag and TiDi was only happening when 1000's of players were in system fighting then fair enough, but it isn't, its happen when only few hundred are fighting
Lucy Oreless
Rise of Rephaim
#19 - 2013-12-17 11:03:49 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Grunanca wrote:
So fact is that everytime CCP raises the limit of people who can paticipate in battles, even larger coalitions form and press the game to the new limit.

With this in mind, am I the only one seeing the utter irony of OP complaining about lag in fleetsfights that are bigger than ever before, while at the same time pointing out that the game is dying because og a declining population? Because when more and more people leave, more and more show up at fights!?

Stop bringing so many people to fights, hardware has its limits no matter how much you complain, and EVE players show time after time that its pointless to upgrade as theyw ill just push the new limit. Back when some of us started a 100 man fight was unbearable because og lag. (anyone remember pressing you MWD by accident, just to see it eat your cap and then go on for another 15-20 min?) That puts the amazing machinery behind eve we got now in perspective.




So is 200 people a lot these days?

I have been in fleets of less then 100 people and TiDi has kicked in by doing something as simple as undocking.

I have been in fleets of under 100, local under 300, sitting stationary on a gate doing nothing and TiDi has kicked in because a couple of reds have uncloaked and launched bombs.

If lag and TiDi was only happening when 1000's of players were in system fighting then fair enough, but it isn't, its happen when only few hundred are fighting


So, this other comperable Spaceship-game you are playing since you obviously have something to compare EVE against, How many players can engage in combat on the one server it has?

And EVE is not dying, it has been dead since 2008 Roll That is what i got told in these very same forums when i joined in.
So cheers to a dead game who still manages to get around 40-50k characters to be logged in EVERY day!

 I did not have sexual relations to THAT woman....
Prince Kobol
#20 - 2013-12-17 11:06:21 UTC
Lucy Oreless wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Grunanca wrote:
So fact is that everytime CCP raises the limit of people who can paticipate in battles, even larger coalitions form and press the game to the new limit.

With this in mind, am I the only one seeing the utter irony of OP complaining about lag in fleetsfights that are bigger than ever before, while at the same time pointing out that the game is dying because og a declining population? Because when more and more people leave, more and more show up at fights!?

Stop bringing so many people to fights, hardware has its limits no matter how much you complain, and EVE players show time after time that its pointless to upgrade as theyw ill just push the new limit. Back when some of us started a 100 man fight was unbearable because og lag. (anyone remember pressing you MWD by accident, just to see it eat your cap and then go on for another 15-20 min?) That puts the amazing machinery behind eve we got now in perspective.




So is 200 people a lot these days?

I have been in fleets of less then 100 people and TiDi has kicked in by doing something as simple as undocking.

I have been in fleets of under 100, local under 300, sitting stationary on a gate doing nothing and TiDi has kicked in because a couple of reds have uncloaked and launched bombs.

If lag and TiDi was only happening when 1000's of players were in system fighting then fair enough, but it isn't, its happen when only few hundred are fighting


So, this other comperable Spaceship-game you are playing since you obviously have something to compare EVE against, How many players can engage in combat on the one server it has?

And EVE is not dying, it has been dead since 2008 Roll That is what i got told in these very same forums when i joined in.
So cheers to a dead game who still manages to get around 40-50k characters to be logged in EVERY day!


So in other words because Eve is currently the only game of its kind then fine to get TiDi by a under a 100 guys undocking..

Cool.

Using your argument CCP do not have to improve or fix anything because Eve is the only one of its kind...

Dumbass
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