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What if they actually DID kill all the bots?
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#21 - 2011-11-17 21:18:42 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
the market bots that bother people need to go FIRST.

I have seen a recent decline in market bots in Amarr, 1 was left but, its actually a really nice one, I heard some one jacked it up for 500M recently =) tee hee hee


Easiest way to do that is to charge a percentage of the order value in exchange for changing the price (0.01% or something). You'd see fewer, but more meaningful, price changes.
Alain Kinsella
#22 - 2011-11-20 11:32:02 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
the market bots that bother people need to go FIRST.

I have seen a recent decline in market bots in Amarr, 1 was left but, its actually a really nice one, I heard some one jacked it up for 500M recently =) tee hee hee


Easiest way to do that is to charge a percentage of the order value in exchange for changing the price (0.01% or something). You'd see fewer, but more meaningful, price changes.


At the very least that would encourage players to actively fight a market bot by exploiting their logic, and trying to make its trades unprofitable or less profitable.

Making the remote price data only accessible by API (and reversing their position on cache access) would help as well, but is far less likely.

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
Grandial
Stride with Ease
#23 - 2011-11-20 11:40:08 UTC
JitaJane wrote:
1. T2 BPOs from the lotto drive T2 prices not invention.


off topic but actually it's the other way around.
before invention t2 prices were higher. t2 bpo owners had to adjust there margins down after invention kicked in. There are just a couple items that are not worth inventing now. (I might be wrong but this is how I percept this)
But then again that's the case with any sort of production. There are always items to find that are not profitable.

to get a little bit on topic again:
If bots were gone, indeed more people would start to mine as it would be more profitable (the change in price might not become so much).
price in inventing and related stuff might go up ever so slightly, but margins would remain after a while.
Profit margin is only relative to the amount of people producing. (and for a smaller amount to the people trading)

Therefore it would only affect:

  • miners -> positively
  • pvp'rs -> negatively
  • pve'rs -> negatively

no change for manufacturers
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#24 - 2011-11-20 13:24:30 UTC
Grandial wrote:

off topic but actually it's the other way around.
before invention t2 prices were higher. t2 bpo owners had to adjust there margins down after invention kicked in. There are just a couple items that are not worth inventing now. (I might be wrong but this is how I percept this)


Mostly true - the main advantage that T2 BPO owners have is that they don't have to include the cost of datacores into their jobs. For many T2 items, the cost of producing a BPC and spending datacores on the invention step can be anywhere from 20-40% (ballpark) of the cost of the item. The waste amounts for a -4 ME T2 BPC don't really factor in until you get into the much more expensive items (such as T2 hulls). Plus T2 BPO owners can just set up their production line to run for a week or two at a time, rather then having to run stuff off as single-unit jobs or 10-19 unit jobs (with no real control over timing).

(T2 mining crystals are a popular item to trot out in these debates. Most of them sell for far less then what it costs to invent. For a T2 veldspar crystal, it costs about 250k ISK to invent. They sell for less then 80k ISK.)

So, removing bots wouldn't have too much of an impact on T2 prices. Naturally, if the underlying T1 items went up in cost, so would the T2 items. Depending on the item that might be a lot or a little.
Grandial
Stride with Ease
#25 - 2011-11-20 16:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Grandial
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Grandial wrote:

off topic but actually it's the other way around.
before invention t2 prices were higher. t2 bpo owners had to adjust there margins down after invention kicked in. There are just a couple items that are not worth inventing now. (I might be wrong but this is how I percept this)


Mostly true - the main advantage that T2 BPO owners have is that they don't have to include the cost of datacores into their jobs. For many T2 items, the cost of producing a BPC and spending datacores on the invention step can be anywhere from 20-40% (ballpark) of the cost of the item. The waste amounts for a -4 ME T2 BPC don't really factor in until you get into the much more expensive items (such as T2 hulls). Plus T2 BPO owners can just set up their production line to run for a week or two at a time, rather then having to run stuff off as single-unit jobs or 10-19 unit jobs (with no real control over timing).

(T2 mining crystals are a popular item to trot out in these debates. Most of them sell for far less then what it costs to invent. For a T2 veldspar crystal, it costs about 250k ISK to invent. They sell for less then 80k ISK.)

So, removing bots wouldn't have too much of an impact on T2 prices. Naturally, if the underlying T1 items went up in cost, so would the T2 items. Depending on the item that might be a lot or a little.


I agree totally. My main point was there that it's not so much the bpo's who are correcting the profit, but more the amount of items manufactured and items moved. I'm guessing there are more of those t2 bpo's out, or it is easier to manufacture alot items, there then other ones where it stays profitable to invent
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-11-22 04:45:35 UTC
To OP:

Clear the game from all sort of bots.
Markets will restabilise.

Simple.
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-11-22 04:45:37 UTC
To OP:

Clear the game from all sort of bots.
Markets will restabilise.

Simple.
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#28 - 2011-11-22 16:04:25 UTC
I agree, mainly I was wondering in which way they will stabilize. That argument is as useful as if I asked you what would have been the difference if you were born two hundred years ago from your life today and you answer with "Well, I would have died eventually."
bilingi
Grandeur Illusions
#29 - 2011-11-22 23:01:21 UTC
Problem is that there are more bots in null than empire..For some unknown reason Roll they never touch them.
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