These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Getting New People Into Nullsec Early

Author
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-12-16 15:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
See title - I think this is the best way to get people into null sec overall. If they stay in high sec until they're ready to go to null a lot won't go to null.

Having spoken to a few people recently who have never been to null, and getting answers like "as soon as you jump into null you instantly get kill" its no wonder people avoid going there.

I think one of the reasons such misinformation is spread around is the choke points, if there's a gate camp at a chokepoint and you jump into null yes you die and likely don't go back again, if the first system you jumped into was insta-death then imagine how bad the other systems deeper in must be...

My solutions are this:

On entry into a system you spawn within a 50km bubble rather than a 15 kilometre bubble.

Reasoning:

Spawning within 15 kilometres puts you in range of every bit of tackle possible.
If there's a gate camp then unless you're advanced (covert cloak, MWD trick) its way to easy for you to die.
Additionally most interceptors can point you out to 30 to 60km.
T2 large bubbles have 45km? range.
An Arazu can get a point out to 100 km.
Interceptors can warp out of bubbles and arrive at the gate before anything that jumped in can escape.
There are plenty of options that we have now that we didn't have when EVE was released which at the time made 15km okay. The 15km is outdated.

The other side of the gate can remain the same. And no I haven't been caught at a gate lately it just seems a little outdated and probably a good reason that many are believing they will die instantly the moment they enter null.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2 - 2013-12-16 16:06:36 UTC
What we need to do is disable any and all logistics within 25km of stargates.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#3 - 2013-12-16 16:15:20 UTC
another way would be to add more entry points into null, making it less likely to run into a choke.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-12-16 16:17:02 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
another way would be to add more entry points into null, making it less likely to run into a choke.



There are plenty of ways in and out of null, you just have to use a map.


.....any high sec low/null entrance has a high probability of being camped. Once you get two jumps in your are relatively safe unless its a FW area, and even then, it you are quick on your feet they are rarely that much of an issue.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#5 - 2013-12-16 16:58:29 UTC
I think the problem is that too many times people will try getting into nullsec from a highsec system, like jumping from Orvolle into PF. Is that ever actually a good idea? I can't think of a time.

Lowsec entry points are much better, if you can survive the passage. Something about "lowsec residents kill everything that moves so that they can complain about having nothing to kill".

Education - and in the early days, a bit of support - is the best way to get people into nullsec and have them stay there. It's not for everyone, but I think nullsec does have more of a "deathtrap" reputation than it deserves.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-12-16 17:14:51 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I think the problem is that too many times people will try getting into nullsec from a highsec system, like jumping from Orvolle into PF. Is that ever actually a good idea? I can't think of a time.

Lowsec entry points are much better, if you can survive the passage. Something about "lowsec residents kill everything that moves so that they can complain about having nothing to kill".

Education - and in the early days, a bit of support - is the best way to get people into nullsec and have them stay there. It's not for everyone, but I think nullsec does have more of a "deathtrap" reputation than it deserves.



Low sec doesn't for that matter.

I was in lowsec daily by the time I was a month old. I also read ALL of ISKtheguide and researched my ass off.

But that is me, I knew within 2 hours of starting that I was going to be hopelessly hooked on this game.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#7 - 2013-12-16 17:40:34 UTC
regional gates already spawn you a big distance away. And getting new players into null has more to do with corps willing to recruit and support them than it has to do with changing travel mechanics.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Praesus Lecti
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#8 - 2013-12-16 17:46:06 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
See title - I think this is the best way to get people into null sec overall. If they stay in high sec until they're ready to go to null a lot won't go to null.

Having spoken to a few people recently who have never been to null, and getting answers like "as soon as you jump into null you instantly get kill" its no wonder people avoid going there.

I think one of the reasons such misinformation is spread around is the choke points, if there's a gate camp at a chokepoint and you jump into null yes you die and likely don't go back again, if the first system you jumped into was insta-death then imagine how bad the other systems deeper in must be...

My solutions are this:

On entry into a system you spawn within a 50km bubble rather than a 15 kilometre bubble.

Reasoning:

Spawning within 15 kilometres puts you in range of every bit of tackle possible.
If there's a gate camp then unless you're advanced (covert cloak, MWD trick) its way to easy for you to die.
Additionally most interceptors can point you out to 30 to 60km.
T2 large bubbles have 45km? range.
An Arazu can get a point out to 100 km.
Interceptors can warp out of bubbles and arrive at the gate before anything that jumped in can escape.
There are plenty of options that we have now that we didn't have when EVE was released which at the time made 15km okay. The 15km is outdated.

The other side of the gate can remain the same. And no I haven't been caught at a gate lately it just seems a little outdated and probably a good reason that many are believing they will die instantly the moment they enter null.


I was expecting a much more thought provoking post given the title, but it ended up being incredibly short-sighted.

Just physically getting into 0.0 space is stupidly easy. Not only can you just fly there (go go new interceptors) but if you've joined a corp/alliance living in 0.0 who have an office you can set a medical clone and just pod yourself. Even moving all your crap is easy.

The problem is getting people to move to 0.0 and stay there.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-12-16 17:46:26 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I think the problem is that too many times people will try getting into nullsec from a highsec system, like jumping from Orvolle into PF. Is that ever actually a good idea? I can't think of a time.

Lowsec entry points are much better, if you can survive the passage. Something about "lowsec residents kill everything that moves so that they can complain about having nothing to kill".

Education - and in the early days, a bit of support - is the best way to get people into nullsec and have them stay there. It's not for everyone, but I think nullsec does have more of a "deathtrap" reputation than it deserves.



Low sec doesn't for that matter.

I was in lowsec daily by the time I was a month old. I also read ALL of ISKtheguide and researched my ass off.

But that is me, I knew within 2 hours of starting that I was going to be hopelessly hooked on this game.


Research is the key to everything in eve.
I run through low and null most days solo just traveling. I know my route options. i know who camps where. i know the best time of day to travel. I just use small ships but almost never cloaky. It is rare to run into options and 95% of those can be solved with gate crashing and reroute.
Finding a decent pvp corp that i willing to train newer players is also key.
Convincing people that half the time it is actually hard to find ships to shoot at you in null is the hardest bit to get new players to believe. Mostly they are more scared of you than you are of them.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#10 - 2013-12-16 18:02:15 UTC
Make it easier for smaller entities to get into 0.0 and defend themselves...

The exact opposite of how it is now when a small group tries to take a mothballed system and gets a 1000+ man fleet dropped on their head.

Or become renters/canon fodder...

...

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-12-16 18:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Make it easier for smaller entities to get into 0.0 and defend themselves...

The exact opposite of how it is now when a small group tries to take a mothballed system and gets a 1000+ man fleet dropped on their head.

Or become renters/canon fodder...



So who do you do that.

If YOU can take a system with 40 people, think how many 40 man groups we can put up at once?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#12 - 2013-12-16 18:18:08 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Make it easier for smaller entities to get into 0.0 and defend themselves...

The exact opposite of how it is now when a small group tries to take a mothballed system and gets a 1000+ man fleet dropped on their head.

Or become renters/canon fodder...



get members
build some killboard history and show a willingness to kill things and not be terrible
start talking to people and find an alliance that will give you a shot

If you really can't bear working with other people, live out of a pos or in an npc station. If you wanna carve your own chunk out of space you can, but don't expect to hold sov or a station without working with other people if you're a sub 100man group.

Its really not so terrible.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Demica Diaz
SE-1
#13 - 2013-12-16 21:14:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
See title - I think this is the best way to get people into null sec overall. If they stay in high sec until they're ready to go to null a lot won't go to null.

Having spoken to a few people recently who have never been to null, and getting answers like "as soon as you jump into null you instantly get kill" its no wonder people avoid going there.

I think one of the reasons such misinformation is spread around is the choke points, if there's a gate camp at a chokepoint and you jump into null yes you die and likely don't go back again, if the first system you jumped into was insta-death then imagine how bad the other systems deeper in must be...

My solutions are this:

On entry into a system you spawn within a 50km bubble rather than a 15 kilometre bubble.

Reasoning:

Spawning within 15 kilometres puts you in range of every bit of tackle possible.
If there's a gate camp then unless you're advanced (covert cloak, MWD trick) its way to easy for you to die.
Additionally most interceptors can point you out to 30 to 60km.
T2 large bubbles have 45km? range.
An Arazu can get a point out to 100 km.
Interceptors can warp out of bubbles and arrive at the gate before anything that jumped in can escape.
There are plenty of options that we have now that we didn't have when EVE was released which at the time made 15km okay. The 15km is outdated.

The other side of the gate can remain the same. And no I haven't been caught at a gate lately it just seems a little outdated and probably a good reason that many are believing they will die instantly the moment they enter null.


It largely depends where you are trying to enter 0.0 space. Plenty of spots that are not guarded at all. Anyone can do little research on those entrances while cruising in high sec. Just keep an eye on players in space, ships destroyed and pod kills. It will not give you info on spot but if you monitor several entraces for few days you get picture where is best spot to enter.

I do agree that there is great deal of misinformation about 0.0 and even a bit about low sec. But I belive that misinformation is about dangers that come with those sectors. You will lose ships but it is not nearly as dangerous place as I was let to belive when I was newbie player.

PS: Personally I have experienced bit different new players. Players who think about shiny battleship and train only for that since day one because battleships are... cool? (in newbie eyes). Aaand since we all know that solo battleship in low or 0.0 is easy target while doing PvE, that newbie with new battleship is sitting in high sec, grinding missions.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2013-12-16 21:56:18 UTC
A good percentage of high-sec players are solo players, and this is the main reason you'll never see most in either low or null-sec. To be sure, many are risk-averse. However... what constitutes a "fight" in low-sec is so far removed from anything even remotely fair that it should be blatantly obvious why players avoid these regions like the plague. Even if they manage to elude the gate camps and roving gangs, it's just a question of time until their luck runs out and they get pointed by someone with a fit who's sole purpose is to survive long enough to "bat-dial" everyone in their corps for "tears". The off-grid boosting, massive logistics and broken drone assist are merely insult to injury.

There's a good article on "catering to the sheep", and it perfectly illustrates what EVE is doing wrong by continuing to pacify the wolves. There's no safe haven for new players... Scammers are allowed to continue to exploit flawed game mechanics and it's justified as part of the "sandbox"... Gankers are allowed to prey in high-sec with impunity... I actually think low-sec is worse than null-sec, because in low-sec they'll shoot absolutely anything and everything - even if it has no value. The saying "no honor among thieves" definitely holds true for this group. If you want to see low-sec tears, just suggest killing local.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#15 - 2013-12-16 22:51:25 UTC
Why are we trying to get more people into Null when we all know Sov is a broken mechanic?
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-12-16 22:51:26 UTC
I agree with this
It makes it easier to get about requires effort on the campers part (oh no I have to move my bubbles around!) and increases battles as now you have range so a scout may say jump and half your fleet gets on the wrong side so now you battle to get them free instead of the current crash back to gate

Would also remove the perception of smartbombs and bubbles pervading and thus the idea of why bother Ill die

Which is very important.
Seeing as pointed there are plenty ways in, the issue is people perceive instant death, breaking that by saying you have a 50% chance of laughing your way out would do wonders.
Versus current you will be caught you will be found, you will die.
Also makes a usage for fleetmates to bring long range tackle ships instead of dictor and stationary (no effort) bubbles
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-12-17 05:35:38 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
I agree with this
It makes it easier to get about requires effort on the campers part (oh no I have to move my bubbles around!) and increases battles as now you have range so a scout may say jump and half your fleet gets on the wrong side so now you battle to get them free instead of the current crash back to gate

Would also remove the perception of smartbombs and bubbles pervading and thus the idea of why bother Ill die

Which is very important.
Seeing as pointed there are plenty ways in, the issue is people perceive instant death, breaking that by saying you have a 50% chance of laughing your way out would do wonders.
Versus current you will be caught you will be found, you will die.
Also makes a usage for fleetmates to bring long range tackle ships instead of dictor and stationary (no effort) bubbles

Yes agreed. It creates a 100km sphere of usable space around a stargate as opposed to the current 30km sphere which is tiny. And while a competent camp will still be able to tackle and kill you at 50km, the pyschological factor that you won't necessarily be landing point blank into a camp is an big improvement.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#18 - 2013-12-17 05:40:40 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Why are we trying to get more people into Null when we all know Sov is a broken mechanic?


NPC Null doesn't have sov. Why not get people there?
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-12-17 06:14:29 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:
PS: Personally I have experienced bit different new players. Players who think about shiny battleship and train only for that since day one because battleships are... cool? (in newbie eyes). Aaand since we all know that solo battleship in low or 0.0 is easy target while doing PvE, that newbie with new battleship is sitting in high sec, grinding missions.

The reason is EVE tutorials are basically missions. Even if they are dedicated to industry or "explo", they are still missions. Newcomer quickly realizes that there will be no free ships once tutorial is completed. So they need an income before doing anything else. And since all he knows is missions, he needs that BS for L4s, and that takes time, and time makes habits...
I think it's something along these lines rather often...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2013-12-17 06:19:45 UTC
Why would anyone go to null?

This is a serious question btw.

.

12Next page