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What kind of fights does EVE really shine in? Are node crashes ruining these fights?

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-12-16 11:55:26 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's an experience in its own. Tidi sucks and sometimes the large fights aren't all that fun (often they are, though) but in the end it's still pretty cool to be a part of something that actually has broader-reaching implications for the game.

What would those broad reaching implications be? You get a pretty dot on a map in space and your alliance's name in a caption on the top of the screen...

For the majority of people the implications are nill.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-12-16 12:12:03 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's an experience in its own. Tidi sucks and sometimes the large fights aren't all that fun (often they are, though) but in the end it's still pretty cool to be a part of something that actually has broader-reaching implications for the game.

What would those broad reaching implications be? You get a pretty dot on a map in space and your alliance's name in a caption on the top of the screen...

For the majority of people the implications are nill.


Yep, while 4k+ battles make nice stories and news, in the end thats it.

Not even an event like Burn Jita or Hulkageddon has much impact anymore, because the traders and miners learned how to deal with it.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Lt Manshield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-12-16 13:07:52 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
One day they'll wise up and actually make it detrimental to dogpile your enemy. Until then don't expect different results from doing the same thing.


ccp nerf friends please
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-12-16 14:02:01 UTC
Lt Manshield wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
One day they'll wise up and actually make it detrimental to dogpile your enemy. Until then don't expect different results from doing the same thing.


ccp nerf friends please

Nah deminishing returns of firing at one target would be enough. You'd have to actually fire at several targets instead.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-12-16 14:14:34 UTC
Hmm. Just plain deminishing return feels kinda plain and boring.
The reason why you shouldn´t be able to shoot at a single target with 100+ ships is line of sight. When you look at screenshots of big fights you wonder, how anyone can even shoot at anything without a huge amount of friendly fire. Obviously there is nothing that hinders you shooting someone directly through 10 of your friends ships.

A real line of sight would be an absolute pain for the server to calculate, but something like that would make it very interesting.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#26 - 2013-12-16 14:16:49 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's an experience in its own. Tidi sucks and sometimes the large fights aren't all that fun (often they are, though) but in the end it's still pretty cool to be a part of something that actually has broader-reaching implications for the game.


lol@thinking big nullblobfights are relevant and have "implications for the game" outside of who has ratting rights in a system.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-12-16 14:17:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hello.

I was just wondering, what scale fights do you think are the most fun in EVE?
What are the most competitive (EG: one side can't just win by escalating by overwhelming numbers)?

Has the limit on that greatly increased over the years? Are we at the point now that we several hundred capital ships on each side to have an interesting fight, where one side doesn't just escalate and blow the other out of the water?

Is the strength of the EVE infrastructure now not strong enough to reach this limit,
IE: as soon as both sides muster all of their powers, the nodes can no longer handle it and a crash happens?

If so, what are possible solutions to allow armadas to have competitive battles?



Game must be changed so that single location huge battles are not the proeminent way of winning a war.

These battles should exist, but they should not the be main way to win a war.


If you want to knwo battle mechanics.
Real life battleships like in Jutland Battle spreaded their fire as much as possible. They did not focus fire, because killing an enemy ship was a matter of hitting a fragile part of ship. The armor when inperviosu to 1 enemy shi wil be as well against 100.

But beign under fire of huge shells reduce the capability of crew to maneuver, reload, aim and fire. So spreadign your fire was importatn to keep all enemy ships as supressed as possible. IF one side focuse fired, it would loose the fight for sure.

But this would be a too huge change mechanic to eve.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-12-16 14:20:27 UTC
The age of the node rollback, where it takes 3 hours of the 7 hour fight for 100 commands to go through, then the node crashes and undoes the last 3 hours.

Watching stream was brilliant, but I feel bad for the people who play WoW, as they too know the dulcet tones of DBRB.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-12-16 14:20:46 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's an experience in its own. Tidi sucks and sometimes the large fights aren't all that fun (often they are, though) but in the end it's still pretty cool to be a part of something that actually has broader-reaching implications for the game.

What would those broad reaching implications be? You get a pretty dot on a map in space and your alliance's name in a caption on the top of the screen...

For the majority of people the implications are nill.


With that view, things never have an impact on anything else. In the context of EvE, what is the point of playing if not to succeed? For many, succeeding means being a part of these large battles and a member of a Sovereignty owning corporation or alliance. If that's not your "thing" then the battle itself might be meaningless to you but the ramifications(mineral prices rise, ship prices rise, a sudden surge of Null refugees lands in your region) have the potential to totally change your gameplay.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#30 - 2013-12-16 14:28:39 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's an experience in its own. Tidi sucks and sometimes the large fights aren't all that fun (often they are, though) but in the end it's still pretty cool to be a part of something that actually has broader-reaching implications for the game.

What would those broad reaching implications be? You get a pretty dot on a map in space and your alliance's name in a caption on the top of the screen...

For the majority of people the implications are nill.


Then why are they still showing up? Its enough that it matters to the people fighting.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-12-16 21:15:02 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Clem Fandango wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
the general idea is at a certain point when a ships shields or armor is taking damage, some of that energy is utilized by the ship to repair itself. At low levels, perhaps a dozen ships worth of damage that energy is negligible, perhaps providing 2% repair boosts but as the level rises the % rises.

So assigning 500 drones to one person and shooting one ship while everyone sits around would likely do 51% damage and 49% repair boost while assigning 50 drones would do 98% in damage and only 2% would be taken as energy to boost repairs.


Amazing. How do you think of this stuff?

Actually the developers thought of it (Capacitor Batteries reflecting energy back at the aggressor), in this case instead of reflecting energy, hardeners could absorb excess energy instead and increase their resists or something.

The doctrine of bringing as many ships and firing at one person would not be as effective and the drone assist / slow cat / reinforce a region full of POS in a few hours would no longer be the only tactic that works.

I think that might actually have the reverse of the intended effect if I'm understanding it correctly. Reducing damage from a blob setup makes reps far more powerful, encouraging the use of carriers and supercarriers, and penalizing more damage focused fleets. CFC's omegafleet would fail miserably under that change.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2013-12-16 22:50:53 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hello.

I was just wondering, what scale fights do you think are the most fun in EVE?
What are the most competitive (EG: one side can't just win by escalating by overwhelming numbers)?

Has the limit on that greatly increased over the years? Are we at the point now that we several hundred capital ships on each side to have an interesting fight, where one side doesn't just escalate and blow the other out of the water?

Is the strength of the EVE infrastructure now not strong enough to reach this limit,
IE: as soon as both sides muster all of their powers, the nodes can no longer handle it and a crash happens?

If so, what are possible solutions to allow armadas to have competitive battles?


tbh if you're having a straight up 250 vs 250 (1 fleet vs 1 fleet) fight, then it all works pretty well as a rule.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sebastor Cane
The Outlet
#33 - 2013-12-16 23:38:22 UTC
Eve really shines on

A. Ganks
B. Login Traps
C. One side underestimating there opponents
D. Cynos
E. Grinding Structures
Fr3akwave
Mercury Arms Inc.
Ghostbirds
#34 - 2013-12-17 14:18:53 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

It's more the fact that he's using his mouse for everything, not following primaries, etc.


Same here... if i frapsed that, i wouldnt even upload it because i was so ashamed of bein that blatantly bad at following commands and using my input devices. I guess people like that still think they are "good".
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-12-17 14:21:29 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Xuixien wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's an experience in its own. Tidi sucks and sometimes the large fights aren't all that fun (often they are, though) but in the end it's still pretty cool to be a part of something that actually has broader-reaching implications for the game.


lol@thinking big nullblobfights are relevant and have "implications for the game" outside of who has ratting rights in a system.

Just because you're ignorant of null politics doesn't mean they don't mean something to a lot of people.

The collective outcome of these battles determines the direction of an overall war, which can mean the death of alliances on the losing end. TEST is relegated to faction warfare now because they lost the Fountain war and all of their sov.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-12-17 14:22:33 UTC
am i weird in preferring dog fight sort of things? say 10 v 10 over these huge scale battles?
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-12-17 14:49:53 UTC
The problem in null is that there is nothing to discourage you from fielding as many ships as you have available until the node crashes.
Take wormholes as an example:
In theory there is nothing preventing you from fielding several hundred slowcats,but it would take forever to bring them into an enemy's hole which greatly discourages node crashing fleet battles.
In null you can just as easily field 200 slowcats as you can field one - just drop a cyno and say hello to TiDi.
If CCP would fix that then we would see a lot more interesting battles in null instead of having lots of battle reports end with "and then the node crashed".
Notorious Fellon
#38 - 2013-12-17 14:52:52 UTC
I prefer small gangs. 3-5 ships looking for another small group of 1-10 to pounce. It gets the heart pumping.

Sitting in a multi-fleet of shiny gold ships looks cool, but once engaged and tidi kicks in, all the fun is lost. Assigning drones to one guy who goes around one-click-one-shotting everything is not my idea of fun.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-12-17 14:53:27 UTC
Alice Ituin wrote:
The problem in null is that there is nothing to discourage you from fielding as many ships as you have available until the node crashes.
Take wormholes as an example:
In theory there is nothing preventing you from fielding several hundred slowcats,but it would take forever to bring them into an enemy's hole which greatly discourages node crashing fleet battles.
In null you can just as easily field 200 slowcats as you can field one - just drop a cyno and say hello to TiDi.
If CCP would fix that then we would see a lot more interesting battles in null instead of having lots of battle reports end with "and then the node crashed".

What would you rather have? A system whereby there's a fight and you try to join in because it sounds fun and you want to play internet spaceships but the game doesn't let you because you didn't get there in time?
Yeah, that's totally the kind of game I want to play.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Notorious Fellon
#40 - 2013-12-17 15:01:36 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Alice Ituin wrote:
The problem in null is that there is nothing to discourage you from fielding as many ships as you have available until the node crashes.
Take wormholes as an example:
In theory there is nothing preventing you from fielding several hundred slowcats,but it would take forever to bring them into an enemy's hole which greatly discourages node crashing fleet battles.
In null you can just as easily field 200 slowcats as you can field one - just drop a cyno and say hello to TiDi.
If CCP would fix that then we would see a lot more interesting battles in null instead of having lots of battle reports end with "and then the node crashed".

What would you rather have? A system whereby there's a fight and you try to join in because it sounds fun and you want to play internet spaceships but the game doesn't let you because you didn't get there in time?
Yeah, that's totally the kind of game I want to play.



I would rather have an environment where it is *possible* to field huge battles, but force projection is much harder so it is not as easy as simply using a cyno to bring in *EVERYTHING*.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
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