EVE General Discussion

I have been training for Freighter, more specific the Obelisk...

Looking at "Advanced Spaceship Command" (ASC) I need Level 1 for the Obelisk

Looking at the Obelisk, I need ASC at Level 5.

Looking at "Advanced Spaceship Command" you get access to Jump Freighters skill at level 4 and via that you get access to the T2 version of the Obelisk the Anshar.

There is something terribly wrong there.

At Advanced Spaceship Command level 1 you should get access to the freighters skill, so you can use the Obelisk (as it says is the required level of ASC to use the Obelisk)

At Advanced Spaceship Command level 4 you should get access to jump freighers skill, so you can use the Anshar (as it says is the required level of ASC to use the Anshar)

So why do they "require" ASC at LEVEL 5... just to use the T1 version, when you can train Jump Freighters skill at LEVEL 4.... But still not use EITHER of the ships before LEVEL 5 ?!?

Image: http://www.simpelt-liv.dk/tmp/obelisk-freighter-skill.jpg

Image2: http://www.simpelt-liv.dk/tmp/anshar-obelisk.jpg

edit: added pic links

Welcome to the mess that is ASC.

Freighters are capital ships, so ASC at lv5 is like " do it or you wont be abble to fly"

This is due to the recent skill overhaul.

Basically, CCP had to do it this way in order to keep to the "If you can fly it now, then you can fly it later" promise.

For example, it used to be that you can fly the freighters with any level in the respective racial freighter skill. When they changed the skill requirements, it meant that there would be quite a few freighter pilots that would suddenly no longer meet the minimum skills needed to fly ships that they already owned because you would now need ad ss command 5 instead of 1 to train the freighter skill.

Before / After (The pre-req overhaul)

Obelisk

Gallente Freighter (Before) 1 (After) 1
Advanced spaceship command (Before) 1 (After) 5
Spaceship command (Before) 5 (After) 5
Gallente Industrial (Before) 5 (After) 3
Gallente Frigate (Before) 3 (After) 0

On any of these ships, it is the top of the skill tree that is needed to get in and fly a ship.

Meaning, that before the skill change, anybody with Gallente Freighter level 1 could sit in the Obelisk. The pre req at the time for the Gallente freighter skill itself was only advanced spaceship command 1.

So what happened is that, after the skill requirements changed, freighter pilots who already owned and flew freighters could STILL fly them with Gallente freighter 1, despite only having advanced spaceship command 1.

Now anybody training after the change has a longer road ahead of them than those before.

What you are seeing is CCP's creative way to keep their promise after the changes took place.

This is also why so many people rushed to get the freighter skill before the skill changes took place. ;) Knowing that it would take a hell of a lot longer if they waited until after.

Edit : I know this is confusing.. Here lets see if I can explain it better.

Joejoe Jimmybobob has been flying a freighter for awhile now, but suddenly he hears that the freighter skill requirements are changing! Oh no CCP will I still be able to fly my freighter after the change?

Of course Joejoe Jimmybobob! Since the primary skill requirement is only Gallente freighter 1, you will still be able to fly it even though you don't already have advanced SS command 5! All that matters is whats at the top of that skill tree.

After the Change, Joejoe Jimmybobob is still able to fly his freighter with Gallente Freighter 1 and Advanced ss command 1.

Anybody who only started training for a freighter after the change has a longer road. They must first train advanced ss command 5 before they can train Gallente freighter 1.

All that matters is having Gallente freighter 1.

They could have changed the skill requirements to gallente freighter 5 instead of advanced ss command 5, but that would mean Joejoe Jimmybobob could no longer fly his freighter, He weeps and cries but then reads the post that ccp has promised that if you can fly it now you can fly it after.

Jojoe Jimmybobob rejoices! And then gets promptly suicide ganked by another wanna be freighter pilot after finding out that Joejoe Jimmybobob didn't have to train advanced ss command 5 like he would have to do now.

TLDR : band-aid - This is purely so that people who only had advanced ss 1 and racial freighter 1 can still fly the freighter after the change.

Anshar does require ASC lvl 5, since it requires it nested in the Gallente Freighter skill req. I don't really see the problem. It's convoluted but thats because CCP reworked the Freighter skills, but not the JF skills yet.

I don't really get why you're making such a problem out of something so trivial though

Well yeah on that I agree. There could have been cleaner ways to handle it simply in regard to not confusing people who look at the requirements and nested requirements.

At the same time though, the skill overhaul wasn't exactly an easy thing for them to pull off and still keep to the promise of fly it now fly it later. For the changes that involved splitting universal skills (BC/DEST/ETC) into individual racial variants, it was a bit easier.

Changes to freighter requirements were another creature entirely since they were already split into racial variant skills and they were not adding entirely new skills.

Oh and yes I guess in some ways it kind of stood against the notion that the skill overhaul was to make things easier to understand. ;)

Just to be clear here.

Don't confuse the requirements to train the skill with the requirements to fly the ship. Each skill will have certain prereqs, and they will all be designed as self-contained units without any notion of what other related skills might require.

So…

You do not have to have ASC V to fly either a freighter or a JF. In fact, you don't need the skill at all to fly a JF, and only at level I to fly a freighter. This is a completely different thing than what you need in order to train the [Racial] Freighter and Jump Freighter skills.

Yes, you need ASC V these days to inject a Freighter skill and you need ASC IV to inject the Jump Freighter skill, but in skill tree terms, the two are not actually related so the prereqs of one don't matter for the prereqs of the other. In purely practical terms, it just means that you might as well inject JF while you're trying to qualify for the base freighter skills.

Also in practical terms, the difference between the actual ship prereqs and the prereqs for the skills involved means that, once you've injected your freighter skill, ASC is no longer particularly relevant for you (aside from the bonus it provides). You could be podded down to 900k SP and still be able to fly your freighter, because there's no chance that you'll ever lose that first level of ASC that you need to fly it. It also means that if you already have the freighter skill injected, there's no reason for you to worry about what it says about ASC lower down in the prereq tiers — those tiers are now irrelevant to you since you fulfil the requirements for the ship. In the animation linked above, the character can fly Arks and Providences just fine, in spite of only having ASC IV, because the first tier of skills (Amarr Freighter IV, JF I, JDC I for the Ark; Amarr Freighter I and ASC I for the Providence) are all trained to the appropriate levels.

Just train ASC. We all did it, we don't talk about it. It's one of those things.

if im reading this right, the only problem is that the Jump Freighter skillbook doesn't have its requirement of ASC to be level 5, despite it being level 5 to fly the ship that uses jump freighters.

not a big deal.

^^
If there was anybody to accept advice and opinions from when it comes to freighters it would be a Red Frog freighter pilot.