These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Rapid Missile Launchers - v2

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#3321 - 2013-12-15 10:58:35 UTC
Chigurh Friendo wrote:
Rise, when are we going to hear more about whatever progress has been made on developing the ammo reload vs. ammo swapping time differential implementation for RLMLs?

I was under the impression that there were technical limitations... but that otherwise it was a "we're for sure doing this" type of change. Any new information that you can shed some light on?


Should be in the winter 2014 expansion. Cool
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3322 - 2013-12-15 18:59:31 UTC
You shall not pass! (I may not have much to contribute, but I'll be damned if I'm going to lead this thread die...) Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3323 - 2013-12-15 19:37:13 UTC
Bump!
Lextron Saken
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3324 - 2013-12-15 19:41:19 UTC
The RLML Cerb and Caracal are now completely useless for PVP and PVE.

16 Rounds you will go through in about 40 seconds, and if you have to reload for 40 seconds that gives the enemy time to reload his ASB if it's a 1v1. And lots of 1v1's involve active tank.

I have not seen an RLML ship in PVP since this nerf.

PVE, it's obvious whats wrong now.

All of the EVE Community asked for a Buffer of the RLML. But what we got was actually a nerf to kill the weapon all together.

Hit and kill is not what the weapon does anymore, it's hit and run Attention

This must be fixed asap.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#3325 - 2013-12-15 19:50:14 UTC
If you want to make your point, you have to hit Fozzie and Rise where it matters: Right in the usage metrics.

Stop using them. Inform your friends, corpmates, alliancemates, enemies and anyone else that if they don't like the way RLMLs and RHMLs work, the only way to do anything about it is to stop using them completely. For anything ever. Right now.

Then, if we're super-lucky, we might get a "rebalancing missiles and launchers" thread after waiting for six months.
Lextron Saken
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3326 - 2013-12-15 19:54:31 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
If you want to make your point, you have to hit Fozzie and Rise where it matters: Right in the usage metrics.

Stop using them. Inform your friends, corpmates, alliancemates, enemies and anyone else that if they don't like the way RLMLs and RHMLs work, the only way to do anything about it is to stop using them completely. For anything ever. Right now.

Then, if we're super-lucky, we might get a "rebalancing missiles and launchers" thread after waiting for six months.


What happened after the rebalancing missiles previously. Nerf the HML so it's unusable and ignore Torpedoes.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3327 - 2013-12-15 20:14:34 UTC
Torpedoes are fine... That's why everyone uses them. Roll

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3328 - 2013-12-15 20:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sal Landry
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Torpedoes are fine... That's why everyone uses them. Roll

They do use them.

(on frigates)

(for shooting structures)

If I had to guess I'd say around 5% or less might be on actual battleships shooting other space ships.

Edit: apparently it wasn't obvious enough, I'm talking about bombers
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3329 - 2013-12-15 20:24:03 UTC
On frigates you say...? Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#3330 - 2013-12-15 22:41:55 UTC
Sal Landry wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Torpedoes are fine... That's why everyone uses them. Roll

They do use them.

(on frigates)

(for shooting structures)

If I had to guess I'd say around 5% or less might be on actual battleships shooting other space ships.

Edit: apparently it wasn't obvious enough, I'm talking about bombers


Torpedo launchers are considered "balanced" as a PVE weapon which structure bashing is a related thing.

As a PVP weapon I can't personally say I've ever seen it in the 4 years I have played.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3331 - 2013-12-16 00:03:14 UTC
Missiles are great, just not on caldari ships.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3332 - 2013-12-16 00:22:00 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Missiles are great, just not on caldari ships.

I assume I'm not the only one the irony is lost on...?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3333 - 2013-12-16 00:36:49 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Missiles are great, just not on caldari ships.

I assume I'm not the only one the irony is lost on...?


It's a tricky one really. Caldari ships tend to have range bonuses rather than brawling bonuses. Of course ranged combat implies fleet combat. So Caldari ships lend themselves more towards fleet combat... except no-one is using them in fleets.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3334 - 2013-12-16 00:41:05 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
It's a tricky one really. Caldari ships tend to have range bonuses rather than brawling bonuses. Of course ranged combat implies fleet combat. So Caldari ships lend themselves more towards fleet combat... except no-one is using them in fleets.

I guess that makes the Caldari the token PvE race then...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3335 - 2013-12-16 01:03:36 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
It's a tricky one really. Caldari ships tend to have range bonuses rather than brawling bonuses. Of course ranged combat implies fleet combat. So Caldari ships lend themselves more towards fleet combat... except no-one is using them in fleets.

I guess that makes the Caldari the token PvE race then...


It's certainly the ideal PVE race, or at least it was until the new dominix was born.

It's been interesting for me to see my chosen race going from the worst at pvp and pve to arguably the best (or at least the easiest).

I guess the only constant in life is change...

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Chrom Shakiel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3336 - 2013-12-16 01:39:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Chrom Shakiel
Current precision and javelin ammo comparison all skills level 5 on ubonused hull for range, ER or EV.

Scourge Javelin Torpedo: ER = 338, EV = 107, Range 30.4 km.
Scourge precision cruise missile: ER = 223, EV = 125, Range 74 km.

Scourge Javelin Heavy assault missile: ER = 93.8, EV = 152, Range 30.4 km.
Scourge Precision Heavy missile: ER = 93.8, EV = 146, Range 31.4 km.

For the heavy missiles keep in mind that it has way lower DPS then Hams and no range advantage for its Precision ammo considering its long range platform.

Torp javelin values should be closer to Cruise precision values since its range isn’t greater then 30.4 km.

Six Torp launcher T2 on a N Scorpion hull with 4 BCS does 722 DPS.
Six Cruise Launchers on same hull with 4 BCS does 599 DPS but have extreme range advantage.

I think the javelin torps should have similar ER and EV as the Precision Cruise since it doesn’t have a range advantage this would make torps a bit more flexible against smaller stuff in close range.
And Heavy precision ammo should get some range advantage over ham javelins since it has lower DPS.

Don’t adjust tracking values of torps around Stealth Bombers, adjust Stealth Bombers around torps.
Give stealth bombers individual decrease in tracking for torps so they can keep their current tracking for torps then torps will bee free Lol.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3337 - 2013-12-16 01:45:10 UTC
Chrom Shakiel wrote:
Give stealth bombers individual decrease in tracking for torps so they can keep their current tracking for torps then torps will bee free Lol.

I'll go you one better... Stealth bombers should get the new Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers instead, and then they can finally address torpedoes for battleships.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#3338 - 2013-12-16 02:01:00 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Missiles are great, just not on caldari ships.

I assume I'm not the only one the irony is lost on...?


It's a tricky one really. Caldari ships tend to have range bonuses rather than brawling bonuses. Of course ranged combat implies fleet combat. So Caldari ships lend themselves more towards fleet combat... except no-one is using them in fleets.



Well it has a lot to do with the crappiness of Caldari hybrid hulls in general. They are gimped pretty much across the board.
Chrom Shakiel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3339 - 2013-12-16 02:08:07 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Chrom Shakiel wrote:
Give stealth bombers individual decrease in tracking for torps so they can keep their current tracking for torps then torps will bee free Lol.

I'll go you one better... Stealth bombers should get the new Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers instead, and then they can finally address torpedoes for battleships.


Haha Even better, let the Stelth Bomers fell the love of 40 seconds reloads P
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3340 - 2013-12-16 02:14:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Thinking there might have been a hidden use for the new rapid heavy missile launchers, I ran a few L4s this weekend.

FML... These can't even be used as a tertiary weapon - let alone a secondary one. The rate of fire is even faster than the rapid light missile launchers, which means you deplete the magazine in no-time flat. A MJD should come standard with your purchase of RHMLs to enable you to jump to safety while you reload. These aren't even a good fit for brawling, since at least with torpedoes you're putting our excessive damage to compensate for the increased NPC weapons fire. And you're not attempting to vainly orbit for nearly a minute while your minions fumble and generally f**k around trying to figure out how to reload these things. I got more excitement pulling out the toy from the Cracker Jack box while I waited.

This shouldn't necessarily come as any great surprise, though...

Anyone @ CCP paying attention? If so, follow this link.
(Hint: Rise and Fozzie, that's the two of you in the middle frame)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.