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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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New Freighter Proposition

First post
Author
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#1 - 2013-12-13 23:38:07 UTC
I propose a new freighter, or freighter type.

Basically a freighter with a massive ship maintenance hangar instead of a massive cargo hold.

Whether you could dock in it, or it was only used for moving ships would be irrelevant to me.

A jump freighter with similar capabilities would be a huge boon to our 0.0 friends.

The main thing this would allow is moving ships around without the need for irritating courier contracts.

Any comments/suggestions/trolls?

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2 - 2013-12-13 23:46:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
A pair of unrigged brutixes sent out here for shooting other peoples space pixels with ammo and modules was ~a 10th of the capacity of a JF and didn't cost me much from the alliance service. Rigs I sent loose with the modules in the contract.

It is unlikely that we'd ever send a rigged ship back, and we'd only need to fly a rigged ship from lowsec station to highsec gate (after carting it with a carrier to that point), anyway.

It would appear that some incursioneers however would like to carry rigged battleships, which the orca can't do.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2013-12-14 02:56:38 UTC
This has come up before.

Consensus seems to be that high sec logistics ought to be hard and incursion bears should stop whining about how they have to slow down to keep making money. But hey, it's an idea.
Wyte Ragnarok
#4 - 2013-12-14 11:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dosnix
troll content fixed
ISD Dosnix
ISD Dosnix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#5 - 2013-12-14 15:09:29 UTC
Moved to Feautres & Ideas.
Please stay on topic
ISD Dosnix

[b]ISD Dosnix Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCL) Interstellar Service Department[/b]

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2013-12-14 17:41:29 UTC
So, an orca/carrier/supercarrier/titan?
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#7 - 2013-12-14 20:27:45 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
This has come up before.

Consensus seems to be that high sec logistics ought to be hard and incursion bears should stop whining about how they have to slow down to keep making money. But hey, it's an idea.


That makes sense I suppose, although I do not see how it makes high sec logistics safer, only less clicking. The only difference would be that instead of having to create courier contracts which have a predesignated destination, you can move them where ever you want. However the ship hauling them would still be just as vulnerable to ganking etc.

If incursion guys want to haul their multi billion isk ships in a freighter I'm sure bat country would love to pay them a visit.

Danika Princip wrote:
So, an orca/carrier/supercarrier/titan?


Kinda I guess, but without all the other bays, only the ship maintenance.

All in all, the only thing that would change would be hauling assembled ships would be drag and drop rather than creating and assigning courier contracts to yourself, which actually involves two characters.
Wyte Ragnarok
#8 - 2013-12-14 21:09:15 UTC
ISD Dosnix wrote:
Moved to Feautres & Ideas.
Please stay on topic
ISD Dosnix


I fail to see how my post describing the proposed ship as a carrier, thus rendering the proposal void, constitutes as "trolling". So allow me to elaborate my point further:
Carriers are effectively the ship OP is describing, only with added jump drives and fighters. Therefore this seems irrelevant.
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#9 - 2013-12-14 21:14:30 UTC
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
ISD Dosnix wrote:
Moved to Feautres & Ideas.
Please stay on topic
ISD Dosnix


I fail to see how my post describing the proposed ship as a carrier, thus rendering the proposal void, constitutes as "trolling". So allow me to elaborate my point further:
Carriers are effectively the ship OP is describing, only with added jump drives and fighters. Therefore this seems irrelevant.



except that those two things you mentioned render them unusable in high sec, plus carriers can carry up to 2 battleships at a time. It takes a LOT of carrier jumps to relocate a fleets worth of battleships. Sure you can break rigs and pack them away that way, but still.

So far I see it as one person with no use for it, and you say 'not needed.'

Any others with opinions?
Wyte Ragnarok
#10 - 2013-12-14 23:08:36 UTC
Therefore, if carriers are not allowed into high sec and can only carry 2 battleships, why should your proposed freighter be allowed?
As for me not having a use for it; I like would use it, if available. I can also think of many, many others that would use it. Can you not see my points though? Having this would overrun the carrier and Orca's capabilities to transport ships. Furthermore, it would potentially make logistics far too easy. If you need to take a BS 30-40 jumps in high sec, use an alt or corpie.
What's more, as mentioned; this has been suggested time and time again.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#11 - 2013-12-15 03:25:26 UTC
Katherine Raven wrote:
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
ISD Dosnix wrote:
Moved to Feautres & Ideas.
Please stay on topic
ISD Dosnix


I fail to see how my post describing the proposed ship as a carrier, thus rendering the proposal void, constitutes as "trolling". So allow me to elaborate my point further:
Carriers are effectively the ship OP is describing, only with added jump drives and fighters. Therefore this seems irrelevant.



except that those two things you mentioned render them unusable in high sec, plus carriers can carry up to 2 battleships at a time. It takes a LOT of carrier jumps to relocate a fleets worth of battleships. Sure you can break rigs and pack them away that way, but still.

So far I see it as one person with no use for it, and you say 'not needed.'

Any others with opinions?


I own about 6 bc BPOs and 2 battleship BPOs. there were times where i had them all in manufacturing on 24 hour cycles. I never used my orca alt to shift them to the hubs, they always went in a freighter, and the freighter can carry more packaged battleships than it can protect from economic ganking.

IMO manufacturers do not need a battleship carrier to solve their logistics issues, in practice the mineral load and ship return loads are well balanced when buying from a hub, manufacturing and then returning to the hub with finished goods. A carrier would be non useful for manufacturing as substitution into the finished product role would cause both ships to do trips in ballast (twice as many trips).

Mission runners don't need a carrier because the sensible thing to do is leave T1 hulls at hubs - you can strip the fit and ammunition into a hauler (I use a BR), and you can revisit in the future if you need to mission for the same faction/corp in the future. The time saved carting 2 battleships to a remote hub to do a 32 mission set and then carting them back would not be worth it to use a mach over a dominix that I left there 3 years ago.

Incursion runners "need" a battleship carrier if they own muitple battleships - and intend fielding them all at every incursion, but here is the thing. If you build a carrier with sufficient EHP to give viable"economic ganking" protection to 2 pirate battleships, then you give excess protection to everyone hauling 1 pirate battleship, so everyone will use these carriers to give their single vindicator 500k ehp when travelling.

ie the thing you want can't be balanced into the game.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#12 - 2013-12-15 04:35:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Tauranon wrote:
Incursion runners "need" a battleship carrier if they own muitple battleships - and intend fielding them all at every incursion, but here is the thing. If you build a carrier with sufficient EHP to give viable"economic ganking" protection to 2 pirate battleships, then you give excess protection to everyone hauling 1 pirate battleship, so everyone will use these carriers to give their single vindicator 500k ehp when travelling.

ie the thing you want can't be balanced into the game.

I wish i could stuff packaged ships into Orca's Ship Maintenance bay. That way incursion pilots can move their ships with spare rigs, fits and ammo around with much less trouble. Convenience vs risk - Orcas are not particulary gank resistant (250-300k ehp with very valuable cargo) plus rig loss every time you have to move. Pretty much balanced i'd say. But then it would be much easier (but longer) to just courier contract ships to Blue Frog.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Coyote Laughing
#13 - 2013-12-15 07:38:55 UTC
Given the game theme seems to be lately focusing on stuff for small gangs, could I suggest a smaller maintenance bay in an industrial for Amarr or Caldari, seeing they missed out on specialized haulers last time around.

You could just drop a depot, so perhaps a ship that is designed to carry depots and/or steal them with their contents is an idea?

Maybe an industrial with a small fleet hanger that would let Ventures and similar operate more effectively, without costing two PLEX worth of ISK - perhaps giving it a mining foreman skill boost, say 5% or 10% per level? (not stacking with the mining leadership implant).

l8r \o/

Kate stark
#14 - 2013-12-15 10:02:48 UTC
Katherine Raven wrote:
I propose a new freighter, or freighter type.

Basically a freighter with a massive ship maintenance hangar instead of a massive cargo hold.

Whether you could dock in it, or it was only used for moving ships would be irrelevant to me.

A jump freighter with similar capabilities would be a huge boon to our 0.0 friends.

The main thing this would allow is moving ships around without the need for irritating courier contracts.

Any comments/suggestions/trolls?



simply replace current freighter cargo holds with fleet hangars instead. that's a better solution.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.

Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#15 - 2013-12-15 17:48:42 UTC
Well, that certainly is a plethora of excellent points. I am convinced, a new ship for this purpose is not at all necessary.

I could suggest a small compromise, what if fitted ships could be carried by the existing freighters? No new ships, no new rules, not real balance changes (you technically can already do this, it just involves using courier contracts).

Tauranon: Yeah for manufacturing there's no need for it. You're better off hauling packaged ships. You end up hitting your maximum comfort isk value amount long before you fill the hold.

Wyte Ragnarok: You do make very valid points, and I thank you for your contributions to this thread. As mentioned above, I am convinced. Making it so I don't need to use courier contracts would be handy though.

I don't do this often, but each of the 3-4 times I have done it, the courier contract bit has frustrated me.
Kate stark
#16 - 2013-12-15 17:50:22 UTC
Katherine Raven wrote:
I could suggest a small compromise, what if fitted ships could be carried by the existing freighters? No new ships, no new rules, not real balance changes (you technically can already do this, it just involves using courier contracts).

that's exactly what i just suggested.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.

Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#17 - 2013-12-16 17:30:06 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
Katherine Raven wrote:
I could suggest a small compromise, what if fitted ships could be carried by the existing freighters? No new ships, no new rules, not real balance changes (you technically can already do this, it just involves using courier contracts).

that's exactly what i just suggested.


Sorry missed that.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#18 - 2013-12-16 17:39:18 UTC
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
Therefore, if carriers are not allowed into high sec and can only carry 2 battleships, why should your proposed freighter be allowed?
As for me not having a use for it; I like would use it, if available. I can also think of many, many others that would use it. Can you not see my points though? Having this would overrun the carrier and Orca's capabilities to transport ships. Furthermore, it would potentially make logistics far too easy. If you need to take a BS 30-40 jumps in high sec, use an alt or corpie.
What's more, as mentioned; this has been suggested time and time again.

Because a freighter wouldn't have the repping power, ehp, or dps of course.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--