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Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game. This makes it unappealing. Solutions.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#121 - 2013-12-13 15:15:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:


Conversely, for how long do you think you can keep up PLEXing 14bn a day?


Honestly if I could be bothered to do these things I would start doing all kinds of mad things.
Amber Kurvora
#122 - 2013-12-13 15:27:13 UTC
Dirk Massive wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:

Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.


I'm not a spoiled rich kid. I work for my money and I spend it how I please. Also for people who plex, their time is their own and they spend it how they please (grinding isk). So you're both (1) not prepared to work to pay to win outside of the game and (2) not prepared to work to pay to win inside of the game.

I think that covers everything.



I have to say I agree with this 110%. A person SHOULD be able to spend his money as he pleases. It really is nobody elses business.



You say that, but considering our society lives off the back of literally billions of the impoverished, through conquest, economic domination and political power, I'm not sure how morally that stands up. Sure, individually we don't actively set out to cause the misery, but we help maintain it...and no, I have no idea how to change it or what to replace it with. Nor am I going to tell anyone how they should spend their cash. It's just something I think we should all factor into our lives when we spurge on the new iphone or graphics card.

I love Eve, and the freedom it gives, but I also get a little bit down at times that it's only about the money - how much you can make, and how much you can cost someone else.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#123 - 2013-12-13 15:34:28 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Fact: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you wherever he can afford to and there's not much you can do about it.
...



Laughed at your post.
Fixed your post.
Laughed at my post.

What a great thread!





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#124 - 2013-12-13 15:45:51 UTC
Amber Kurvora wrote:

You say that, but considering our society lives off the back of literally billions of the impoverished, through conquest, economic domination and political power, I'm not sure how morally that stands up. Sure, individually we don't actively set out to cause the misery, but we help maintain it...and no, I have no idea how to change it or what to replace it with...


Morally it doesn't stand up, power is amoral though, not immoral.
Replace it with what you like, it's all based on human nature, a permanently crooked and slippery timber, from which nothing straight has ever been made.
Eve is a game that lets power and money run rampant because there's no women and children to consider. A game.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-12-13 15:47:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Fabulous Rod wrote:


You don't just need 4 accounts, you also need the computers to run them. We are talking about multi-boxing here. You don't know what poor is until you have been to a country where the minimum wage is 1$ an hour. Many of these countries have import taxes which makes computers and cars prohibitively expensive to the average person. All of these things things help contribute to EVE's status as a p2w game and a game that many people simply cannot afford to be competitive in, given the relatively heavy investments required.



Not true, I have computer with two video cards and 5-6 monitors, I can run two accounts full graphics and brackets in a 10% TiDifest without it killing it, the I'll get into the yellow zone on CPU temp though. It also allows me to run four accounts if there isn't a major fleet battle going on...also at max settings.

Silent Rambo wrote:
Onictus wrote:

I don't pay for any of my accounts unless I'm out of game or just being lazy....and I have four active.....I can basically plex an account every two days with like 2-3 hours of mission running, and an alt with like 16mil SP.


2/3 hours of mission running = 600mil isk payoff. Where da f---- you doing these missions?


Not what I said at all, I said every couple days, and three hundred mill on three hours isn't very hard right now. I'm using two accounts but only one is actually running missions the other is ferrying ammo and minerals and building/marketeering or whatnot

There are a lot of times when all I'm doing is looking up and making sure that guns are cycling (y'know, CFC and structures.....its an addiction) so I may as well do something else that requires little attention, like missionings
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#126 - 2013-12-13 15:51:40 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
(Stuff about multiboxing being possible)

Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


You fail at conclusions. Multiboxing is not 1v1. Pretty much all intelligent people know this.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#127 - 2013-12-13 17:00:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Conversely, for how long do you think you can keep up PLEXing 14bn a day?


Depends on how deep my pockets are and how serious I am about it. At $500 us a pop, I figure I could do it a month or so, if i felt like blowing my yearly entertainment budget on eve. I'm really not hard core enough though to blow that sort of cash, nor do I really need the isk.

But there are people who are and would.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#128 - 2013-12-13 17:27:36 UTC
Amber Kurvora wrote:

You say that, but considering our society lives off the back of literally billions of the impoverished, through conquest, economic domination and political power, I'm not sure how morally that stands up.


This is left wing twaddle of the first order.
Halcyon Harvey
Doomheim
#129 - 2013-12-13 17:34:28 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Halcyon Harvey wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:
tell that to these guys

http://www.slashgear.com/eve-multiboxing-rig-skirts-gaming-rules-with-complex-controllers-1281188/

http://achrontimeless.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/multibox-1024x768.jpg

http://vindicator.us/images/arc7pve.jpg

This level of commitment (by which I mean lack of a life), should be rewarded. I mean, think of all the time and money they could have spent on something... you know... productive.. but instead devoted to grinding internetspacepixels.

That **** is funny as hell.


Oh man, when I read something like this i just shook my head and think "ts, tss, tss... poor little guy, so much envy in him Sad .

You know, there are many peeps out there, that have successful life, have a beautiful and loving wife and children, they hike mountains and nature and yet, they are technological maniacs and geeks that spends money on their toys without negatively affecting their family budget. Please look at the mirror.

And remember kids...


EDIT: by the way you just wrote a textbook fallacy "This level of commitment (by which I mean lack of a life)," === true Scotchman drink"...i am Scotchman and dont drink".. then you are not a true Scotchman"...

Yes of course, those people you see hiking in the wild Scottish highlands and playing with their adorable 3 children in a picturesque back yard that fit so well into GoodLife commercials... those people who gather around the pub tables in Guinness ads laughing with their friends while the sappy music plays... those people you so desperately want to be (and so you buy the advertised product)... they go home and casually check on their 10-box bot setup to see how much ISK they earned today.

Seriously. Grow up.

Forsaken (An EVE Thing)
Amber Kurvora
#130 - 2013-12-13 21:36:57 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Amber Kurvora wrote:

You say that, but considering our society lives off the back of literally billions of the impoverished, through conquest, economic domination and political power, I'm not sure how morally that stands up. Sure, individually we don't actively set out to cause the misery, but we help maintain it...and no, I have no idea how to change it or what to replace it with...


Morally it doesn't stand up, power is amoral though, not immoral.
Replace it with what you like, it's all based on human nature, a permanently crooked and slippery timber, from which nothing straight has ever been made.
Eve is a game that lets power and money run rampant because there's no women and children to consider. A game.





A game? Really? There was me trying to plug my USB plug into my... Wait a minute, you may have a point. By the way, the power may be amoral, but I consider knowing it's nature and still letting it work the way it does is immoral, but that's a personal opinion.


That aside, the way people act when money and power run rampant is exactly why I like Eve being a game and not real life, and no, I don't fit into the universe well due to that reason. I'm not good at competing in the rate race on either side of the screen, but I'm ok with that.
Jax Zaden
Prometheus Deep Core Mining
#131 - 2013-12-13 21:51:07 UTC
a $500/week allowance doesn't prevent someone from stacking 7 Heat Sinks on an Abaddon and trying to shield tank it. Money helps but it isn't everything.
Casanunda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2013-12-13 22:29:23 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game. This makes it unappealing. Solutions.

Solutions you say?

  • Give me your stuff
  • Biomass and or unsubscribe
  • ????
  • Profit!!

The fact that I am not a gazillionaire Gallente aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#133 - 2013-12-15 00:02:13 UTC
Amber Kurvora wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Amber Kurvora wrote:

You say that, but considering our society lives off the back of literally billions of the impoverished, through conquest, economic domination and political power, I'm not sure how morally that stands up. Sure, individually we don't actively set out to cause the misery, but we help maintain it...and no, I have no idea how to change it or what to replace it with...


Morally it doesn't stand up, power is amoral though, not immoral.
Replace it with what you like, it's all based on human nature, a permanently crooked and slippery timber, from which nothing straight has ever been made.
Eve is a game that lets power and money run rampant because there's no women and children to consider. A game.





A game? Really? There was me trying to plug my USB plug into my... Wait a minute, you may have a point. By the way, the power may be amoral, but I consider knowing it's nature and still letting it work the way it does is immoral, but that's a personal opinion.


That aside, the way people act when money and power run rampant is exactly why I like Eve being a game and not real life, and no, I don't fit into the universe well due to that reason. I'm not good at competing in the rate race on either side of the screen, but I'm ok with that.


At the risk of going way offtopic, i have noticed in 4 yrs of eve that people don't really roleplay. They act in game pretty much as they would out. They might give reign to unacceptable aspects of themselves in game that they would never allow IRL, and that's about as far as roleplaying goes. Generally, especially under pressure, people revert to type.
I've seen people ragequit over the hostility and toxic facets of eve life, partly due to moral objections they have with how things go when there's no consequences to deal with.
Your life is gonna be a miserable drift of sour grapes until you make a complex series of compromises with the terrifyingly liberating fact that existence is a no rules battleground. In game and out, know yourself and get along with others if you want to be a force to be reckoned with.
Or live like a solitary roach, running from everything and subsisting on the crumbs, tried it, didn't like it.

TLDR Eve is not pay to win, there are no ingame actions that merit moral outrage, resignation is step one to making a difference.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2013-12-15 00:08:06 UTC
Logic dictates that talking like a Vulcan doesn't make you one.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Arsenic Malin
Doomheim
#135 - 2013-12-15 03:09:34 UTC
Push a couple of buttons, wait to see who's ship blows up. Have plenty of time to type in chat in the middle of pvp.

Most snooze pvp of any game i've played.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2013-12-15 03:15:46 UTC
In a fair engagement where all pilots have even applicable skills, no dedicated OffGB, and similar player skills:

2 people with 1 account each > 1 person with 2 accounts

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Slave A00073078
Northern Raven Reconnaissance Syndicate
#137 - 2013-12-15 03:16:19 UTC
This thread is trolltastic.
Arsenic Malin
Doomheim
#138 - 2013-12-15 03:24:00 UTC
Dont UseYourAlt OnTheForums wrote:
OFC EvE is pay to win.

Only pathetic people will disagree and bring all kinds of nonsensical excuses to justify their lack of reason.

They dont want to believe it cause if they do it breaks all their dreams and expectations about eve.

Their little world all of a sudden collapses.

Thats why its better to believe in a lie for them.


It is, but what do you win. I just blow stuff up.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#139 - 2013-12-15 03:30:46 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Amber Kurvora wrote:

You say that, but considering our society lives off the back of literally billions of the impoverished, through conquest, economic domination and political power, I'm not sure how morally that stands up. Sure, individually we don't actively set out to cause the misery, but we help maintain it...and no, I have no idea how to change it or what to replace it with...


Morally it doesn't stand up, power is amoral though, not immoral.
Replace it with what you like, it's all based on human nature, a permanently crooked and slippery timber, from which nothing straight has ever been made.
Eve is a game that lets power and money run rampant because there's no women and children to consider. A game.




Power maybe ammoral, but people with power usually do immoral things with that power.

The last enlightened despot we had was Napoleon Bonaparte. Everyone else has just let the power go to their heads and started doing immoral things with that power.

But I should throw stones because as a person I am very immoral in EVE and out.

I just have the honesty to admit that.

Now only to get the power.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#140 - 2013-12-15 03:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Lugia3 wrote:
In a fair engagement where all pilots have even applicable skills, no dedicated OffGB, and similar player skills:

2 people with 1 account each > 1 person with 2 accounts


This is why you bribe people with promised income.

Some people pay their FC's rather well but on a regular basis.

If you just paid them a onetime PLEX, then they will probably run with the money.

If you pay them a PLEX every three months as long as they FC then they will mostly keep doing that job.

That said, I've only heard of Russians doing this, but I wouldn't put it past other alliances to bribe FCs. We are talking about the really profession FCs. Not the ones that get everyone killed.

One in theory could pay a merc corp in PLEX every month as long as they fought for them and let them participate in fleets.

Everyone has their price.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server