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Kyros cargo gank threshold?
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#1 - 2013-12-14 22:47:13 UTC
It's common wisdom that a Charon Freighter is gank-proof to the tune of 1 billion ISK. 1000 millions. If your cargo is worth less than that, then it won't get suicide ganked. That's the profitability threshold for the Charon.

Obviously the threshold for a T2 tanked Kryos, hauling minerals, will be lower, but how much lower? What's a reasonable amount of minerals to haul in a Kryos? 30 4illion ISK? 120 million ISK? 200M?
Wyte Ragnarok
#2 - 2013-12-14 23:17:05 UTC
I guess it entirely depends upon how much they want to ruin your day.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#3 - 2013-12-14 23:25:43 UTC
Profit never plays a role in high-sec suicide ganks?
Paranoid Loyd
#4 - 2013-12-15 00:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
I would keep it under 200 mil and properly tank it. T2 Gank Nado is your biggest threat, load up one in EFT and tank against that. Keep in mind they will most likely go after your EM hole.

DST is also a consideration for hi-sec hauling, not many can gank a tanked DST, at least not solo.

All that being said, Red Frog is super cheap and you get to pass the risk to someone else. Keep it under 500 mil and put 1bil collateral for the chance of making a nice profit on their demise.Twisted

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#5 - 2013-12-15 00:45:40 UTC
I routinely hire Push X/Push Industries to move large cargoes long-distance for me. However that's fairly slow, often taking 36 hours or more to actually move my crap, sometimes much longer (e.g. around and after Thanksgiving, they had huge problems), and the Kryos' mineral-specific bay is very attractive for certain purposes, e.g. if I need to move a smaller amount of minerals fast.

Also, I've just tried fitting one, and I was able to get it up to 9.5% of the EHP (as per in-game fitting screen) of a Charon, passive tanking both shield and armour (I tries passive tanking shield only, but dual tank was actually better).

That suggests to me that the suicide gank threshold is a cargo value of 95M ISK, not 200M ISK.
Paranoid Loyd
#6 - 2013-12-15 00:49:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Very few will go after 200 mil especially if it requires more than one ship. I used the 200 mil number based off the T2 gank Nado costing around 100 mil

Against RF EMP, this will have a 37.5k tank with your hardeners overheated.
No one in their right mind would attack it if it had 200 mil in it. I would go so far as to say you might be able to get away with up to 400mil or more. Then again, there are plenty of people not in their right mind. Also, there is the lulz factor.

[Kryos, Anti-Gank]

Reactor Control Unit II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Medium Shield Extender II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#7 - 2013-12-15 02:01:34 UTC
I used a tanked Tayra (12.2k Omni EHP, 11k Antimatter EHP) with 100mil in cargo and still got ganked by 2 Catalysts, so yeah, it all depends.
Paranoid Loyd
#8 - 2013-12-15 02:27:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Dato Koppla wrote:
I used a tanked Tayra (12.2k Omni EHP, 11k Antimatter EHP) with 100mil in cargo and still got ganked by 2 Catalysts, so yeah, it all depends.


Heh, for the record. it was only one catalyst, you were auto-piloting and your fit only had cargo expanders so you had about 3.4k EHP against the anti-matter that melted you.Roll

I remember it well as I was completely taken by surprise to see you autopiloting untanked as most of your posts make it seem like your knowledge of this game is quite high and you would never do something so foolish.Ugh

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#9 - 2013-12-15 03:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Very few will go after 200 mil especially if it requires more than one ship. I used the 200 mil number based off the T2 gank Nado costing around 100 mil

Against RF EMP, this will have a 37.5k tank with your hardeners overheated.
No one in their right mind would attack it if it had 200 mil in it. I would go so far as to say you might be able to get away with up to 400mil or more. Then again, there are plenty of people not in their right mind. Also, there is the lulz factor.

37.5k ehp is still 2-3 gankalists. Too easy, cheap and profitable to gank. I almost wish cata lost its 8th turret hardpoint to balance things out between destroyers.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Paranoid Loyd
#10 - 2013-12-15 04:01:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:

37.5k ehp is still 2-3 gankalists. Too easy, cheap and profitable to gank. I almost wish cata lost its 8th turret hardpoint to balance things out between destroyers.


We are (or at least I am) talking about ganking on a gate. You have to kill them before they warp, not to mention be within range. Your gankalist will only get off four volleys max due to the gate guns and it is higly unlikely the target will decloak within range.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Gh0stBust3rs
Templars HIghsec
Stellar Fusion
#11 - 2013-12-15 06:03:45 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Profit never plays a role in high-sec suicide ganks?



wrong. 90% of the time suicide ganks on any type of hauler are based on profits. The other 10% is when the profit fleet gets bored.

some examples

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20931189
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20929924
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20929926


I can keep linking them. Out of the last few days the only gank freighter i saw that wasnt for profit was a cfc entity ganking a PL freighter.
Wyte Ragnarok
#12 - 2013-12-15 10:05:33 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Profit never plays a role in high-sec suicide ganks?


I wouldn't say that. Often there is a potential economic gain from doing so, however; I know plenty of people who gank pods for a laugh and to simply ruin peoples days, just as an example. Furthermore; look at Burn Jita. Though that was a more organised gank, everything went.

When considering economic gains from ganking, the ganker will want the gank to be worth more than their ship(s) cost.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#13 - 2013-12-15 12:39:52 UTC
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:
Salpad wrote:
Profit never plays a role in high-sec suicide ganks?



wrong. 90% of the time suicide ganks on any type of hauler are based on profits. The other 10% is when the profit fleet gets bored.

Yes, that's exactly my point. The other guy is wrong.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#14 - 2013-12-15 12:55:32 UTC
I don't really understand gün damage very well (I'm a missile guy, with a minor in drones), so can someone please tell me the volley damage of a standard gank ship, and its rough ISK cost?
Rainbow Dash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-12-15 15:37:51 UTC
If someone is ganking you with alpha, you are carrying way too much shiny **** in your cargo.

Usually they'll use catalysts if it's an indy.

So you can carry 2*(cost of catalysts needed to gank you) safely.

Basically, anything over 100m is profitable to gank.
Paranoid Loyd
#16 - 2013-12-15 17:18:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Salpad wrote:
I don't really understand gün damage very well (I'm a missile guy, with a minor in drones), so can someone please tell me the volley damage of a standard gank ship, and its rough ISK cost?


As I already said, T2 Alpha Nado is your biggest threat, 10-13K alpha damage, approximately 100 mil. Assuming your agility skills are maxed your align time will be 11 seconds, the Nado's ROF is about 13 seconds, so you only have to survive the initial volley.


Rainbow Dash wrote:
If someone is ganking you with alpha, you are carrying way too much shiny **** in your cargo.

Usually they'll use catalysts if it's an indy.

So you can carry 2*(cost of catalysts needed to gank you) safely.

Basically, anything over 100m is profitable to gank.


This is totally inaccurate, as I have already explained above. The only way a catalyst can be used is if you are auto-piloting or are sitting idle somewhere that is not a gate or station.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#17 - 2013-12-15 17:26:27 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
I used a tanked Tayra (12.2k Omni EHP, 11k Antimatter EHP) with 100mil in cargo and still got ganked by 2 Catalysts, so yeah, it all depends.


Heh, for the record. it was only one catalyst, you were auto-piloting and your fit only had cargo expanders so you had about 3.4k EHP against the anti-matter that melted you.Roll

I remember it well as I was completely taken by surprise to see you autopiloting untanked as most of your posts make it seem like your knowledge of this game is quite high and you would never do something so foolish.Ugh


I was talking about another incident with a different character, but yeah I do admit I was caught out that time and it was a foolish thing to do, but I knew better, I was just being lazy. 100mil isn't really a big deal but it did prompt me to tank all my Tayra but I still got ganked cause I was autopiloting, I guess I'll stick to courier contracts cause I can't deal with the hassle of sitting at my screen and moving stuff around, too tedious.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#18 - 2013-12-16 00:26:26 UTC
Don't forget 10-15m ISK per ship used for the sec status hit (that's tags4sec cost). That adds up fast.

As well as the 'We know this will be profitable' ganks and the 'I'm bored, let's have some fun' ganks, there's also the 'We haven't scanned this but meh, it's probably going to be profitable' ganks, aka lucky dips.

For that reason you're never really safe. But if you take precautions, you can be fairly close to it. My personal threshold for an Iteron with a modest tank (DCU2, 400mm plate, afterburner to cut effective align time to 8s) is 500m on routes where I have secure insta-warps on the stations because I can absorb that loss.

Of course, I'm not taking that Iteron into Uedama, Niarja or lowsec. I don't think I'd pilot an empty Iteron into Uedama or Niarja.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2013-12-16 00:40:08 UTC
Salpad wrote:
It's common wisdom that a Charon Freighter is gank-proof to the tune of 1 billion ISK.


..... Straight




NOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEE


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#20 - 2013-12-16 01:03:43 UTC
no it doesnt have to be profit based, look at the CODE alliance, they will gank anything thats a destroyer and less, and any thing that as to do with industry. they consider autopilot and industry in empire against the law as empire is their space, or so they claim

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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