Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I really wish our victim would respond and share his experience.

To be fair he did put me in structure before I had to warp off, but it is ironic that he had the 'perfect' weapon system against the hostiles that attacked him and didn't manage to kill anyone.

If I recall it correctly one interceptor pilot has been hit hard with both drones and missiles when I landed. When our friend had to warp out I already had a point on the Caracal. I don't think he was scrammed, so even though I was orbiting he was pulling range and there was a good chance I'd lose point. I burned after him, almost in a straight line to maintain point. This is when I started taking a lot of damage. when I was close to him he pointed me and another volley hit me. I was afraid he might have a web [which would have meant certain death,] so I did a 180 degree turn and overheated my mwd to burn out of his point range. When I started burning away I took virtually no damage, but before that, during the 180 degree turn [which admittedly was a stupid move as it slowed me down almost to a complete halt,] he put me in structure. With a little luck, if the timing was right [for him] another volley would have surely killed me. I *think* he only deployed drones on me when I started burning away from him and I was spamming 'warp' so I don't think the drones actually hit me at all, or could catch up with me.

As you say, it would be interesting to see how assault frigates fare against a RLML Caracal. I personally have never gone after one as the one I fly [Harpy,] is pretty slow. On the test server, under controlled circumstances a Caracal could kill me, but that was before the RLML changes. Maybe we'll try it again.

How about we fix two things with one stone:

Guristas missile bonus is currently night useless.

rapid launchers are night useless

Rattlesnake bonus: -30 seconds to Rapid Heavy missile launcher reload time

Gila bonus: -30 seconds to Rapid light missile launcher reload time

Worm bonus: fitting and reload bonus for RLMLs?

So you tried to brawl a Thorax with a Caracal and lost, and your only conclusion is that missiles are bad ?

First, skills : you can make your Caracal fit without ACR, but indeed you need to downgrade the LSE to meta4 and top at 23kehp, yet you can overload the AIF.

Second, about brawling : trying to outbrawl a blaster ship with anything else than blasters is plain stupid. No exception. Blasters are the ultimate brawling weapon. Though, blasters are good only at brawling. And gallente ships are designed to be the ultimate brawling ships.

Do you know what "playing to your strengths" means ? Here it means that you should never ever go in a straight brawl against a gallente blaster ship without thinking twice about it and how you can do it.

Because, third, you still can do it, because you have range and mobility advantages. You have 30km range : the longer you are out of its reach, the better. Then, avoid point blanc at all cost ; stay at the edge of scram range as much as you can. If you pilot correctly (and people around here seems to be great pilot, judging how good they are at preventing their ennemy to avoid turret fire), you can do all this. It's not easy at all, granted, but why should it be ? But you truly have a chance in a HAM Caracal vs a Thorax, you only have to avoid the full brawl at all cost.

You have the range and speed to kite the Thorax, do it or die. That's the way it is. You can't just go strait in the mouth of a blaster Thorax and hope to survive, but if you manage to keep him at range long enough, you'll definitely kill him.

Now, you don't seem so experimented, so I understand why you feel blasters and gallente ships so good (it's easier to understand and master the basics of brawling), but believe me, they have weaknesses, and when you have experience and skill to exploit these weaknesses, you'll get far more flexibility out of any other weapon than blasters.

But until you master this yes, a kiter cought in the claws of a brawler is dead in the water, but that's how it should be and not a proof that missiles under perform.

What's funny is that 2 years ago kiting was fotm but HML were so OP that HAML were completely useless. Now that things are more in lines, people complain because you don't kite like you brawl ; that needs actual piloting skills and the numbers are not as astonishing than for brawling fit. And mistakes don't forgive when you kite.

About the Caracal : ten interceptors killed one RLML Caracal so RLML are worseless ? Come on... What do you expect ?

Skills, This is a toon with 46mil SP, max fitting skills and good to better missile shills. So ok yes you can fit Hams to a caracal without ACR but with Meta 4 LSE Invul and 2 extender rigs, you end up with a massive 17.5k ehp (with SM-705 implant, so you could deduct 5% of the overall shield).
EDIT; Just noticed the 2% PG implant, without it the fit is even tighter.

So tell me, as it has been clearly shown HAMS are pretty much useless without Scram, Web and damage rigs, how would you suggest using them?


Curious, do you think I could kill him in under 1 min 20 sec (cap time), without web or scram? If not, that might explain why kiting in a Ham caracal does not work so well

I'm afraid your so narrow minded, closed minded you can't see just how bad your arguments are. It would not matter what anyone had to say, your convinced your right and everyone else is wrong.

As I said in an earlier post - train up Caldari and missiles, then and only then will you qualify to say how good or bad they are and how they are best used or not.

Respond if you feel the need, I'm out.

At this point the only thing keeping me from petitioning for a missile SP refund is the T2/faction fitted Navy Raven in my hangar that I use to grind Lvl4's when I'm feeling anti-social. It's fun to fly and, sadly, it shows the potential of Caldari missile boats. Of course I have 4 CN BCUs on it so it also shows that the potential of Caldari missile boats is just a pipedream.
I used to have some hope that CCP would pull it's well-balanced head out of it's well-balanced ass and actually fix missiles, but their inattention to their own screw-ups in RLML's shows that this is not going to happen. They were released too early in the design cycle, no public testing was done with them before CCP and the CSM got together to make political promises and shove them down our throats.
Maybe when this cycle of stupid begins to affect turrets there will be enough of an outcry for an exodus from Eve until they fix themselves. Maybe. Until then my sub runs out in a month or so and I'm done.

Its half a dozen people against it with excellent stats and feed back and just you for it with nothing to back you up.Also rise has demonstrated by his actions many times he hates PVE,solo PVP and now missiles thats a given.

In the spirit of the rage i feel about these changes choose a mid range platform for each weapon type and increase its reload to 40s then its balanced

my progeny's are safe between my legs!

Actually I'd advise you to read his posts carefully.

[Caracal, HAM-MWD]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Learn to fit, or skill up.

250dps at 25km is FAR from what medium SR turrets will gets. If that's not enough for you, well, you can unsub I guess...

You don't need to avoid him the whole fight, only enough time to win the final brawl ; which is about 20 seconds. With a web you'll apply full dps, and you can overload the invuln to earn some more ehp.

"I'm afraid your so narrow minded, closed minded you can't see just how bad your arguments are. It would not matter what anyone had to say, your convinced your right and everyone else is wrong."

This apply for everyone here I'm afraid. Yet we can look at facts : you are asking your Caracal to a brawl with a Thorax at point blanc range. This is not less than stupid. Brawling at point blanc range is the only thing blasters are good for. If they are not the best at that, they are useless, exactly like it was 2 years ago.

Now if you are not good enough to figure out how to use your beloved weapons and too bitter to believe I can give any useful advice to counter blasters, you might as well unsub, because in a few years CCP will nerf the next weapon system you'll have trained for and you'll be back crying here.

Nobody here understand anything about balancing and is only whining for their precious missiles, yet they talk with your blessing. And who does actually know anything about blasters and railguns more than I do after flying them for 3 years ? I was there in the Drake and winmatar era, and I remember how it was. HML of this time were not better than HAML of now, they just had more range. Comparison is simple.

The problem is that you are asking things for missiles by comparing them only in the worst case scenario for missiles vs best case scenarios for turrets ; arguing that a good turret pilot can decrease the transversal work both ways : a good missile pilot should be able to increase transversale, and I'd say a duel gun vs missiles should revolve solely on this point, and it does actually ; but I guess most missile user are used to the glorious days of the mighty Drake and are looking for them to come back ; these days when you could sit somewhere, spam your missiles and not be affraid of anything but keeping your target pointed were certainly enjoyable.