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Torpedo rebalance

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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#1 - 2013-12-13 08:54:53 UTC
Another thread from a while ago

The salient points are

  • Cruise missiles have more range and similar DPS
  • Torps move slower, significantly slower. Like 1/3rd the speed slower
  • Cruise missiles are easier to fit - HML and LML are harder to fit than rockets or HAM so why are large missiles different?
  • Ammo capacity is too low. 23 for faction launchers vs 27 T2 cruise missile launcher. Once again not keeping with the theme of smaller missile launchers.


At other points in the thread some fair suggestions are raised specifically toward torpedoes and the perception that they should be balanced around StealthBombers, instead of changing the ammo itself to be better and then toning down SB which makes much more sense.

As a disclaimer I know that people will begin to reference citadel missiles but I will say now there is a big difference between the two not the least being 30m/s eV and 2000m sig radius. Quite a massive difference really.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-12-13 09:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
So you want a high rate of fire, more damage, faster missiles and a bigger clip??

The reason you havent see these changed is becasue they're so damn hard to balance. It will take work to balance them properly for all the ships, and the devs are already on a plan of work.
The Dev's have already stated they know about the torp problem but they havent the time yet to properly sit down and work out what to do... T2 and pirate ships to balance yet... Twisted

No Worries
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#3 - 2013-12-13 09:13:38 UTC
are you nuts? torps get 1500, cruise 1000.

downside of torps are travel time.

missiles need faster travel speed but lower flight time (keeping current ranges just less time from fireing to target hit)
lower explosion rad, higher explosion speed.

DONE.. missles fixed.

as for FOF..
make them prioritize targets by launcher/sig radius..
like.. cruise will go for BSs first.. rockets -> frigs.

Defenders.
make them a little like Rapid launchers.
"can only fit 1"
has limited charges but fast fire rate (1 second maybe)
40-60 second reload.
New defender ammo change.
defender ammo 1 fired, it explodes sending out Chaff/flares (see AC-130 "angel of death")
so 1 Defender = 1 whole volley of up to 8 missiles


with these changes to defender missles; turret boats with utility high or spare missile slot can fit defender. there we go.. no more tears from Gunnery junkies. missiles fixed. every one is happy.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-12-13 10:21:00 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
are you nuts?
has limited charges but fast fire rate (1 second maybe)
40-60 second reload.
so 1 Defender = 1 whole volley of up to 8 missiles


are you... nuts?

temporary immunity to missiles for the price of 1 utility-slot? Come on man, missiles are allready underused - you want to wreck them? Straight
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#5 - 2013-12-13 10:33:20 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Seranova Farreach wrote:
are you nuts?
has limited charges but fast fire rate (1 second maybe)
40-60 second reload.
so 1 Defender = 1 whole volley of up to 8 missiles


are you... nuts?

temporary immunity to missiles for the price of 1 utility-slot? Come on man, missiles are allready underused - you want to wreck them? Straight



no it would be limited by charges allowed in the defender.. think ancillary.. 10 or less charges vs reload time.

and in normal pvp i can see how it would be ok-ish since normal pvp wont use firewalls to blap missiles.. and in larger fleet fights who uses missiles anyway?

ps thank you, you gave me the idea of the defenders NOT targeting Bombs cause they are not deemed a threat due to being unguided and unlocked to launch.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#6 - 2013-12-13 17:08:47 UTC
Torps get 1500 dps sure.. overheated and firing rage. Good luck applying that damage to anything that won't faceroll you in return.

I do think that missiles need to increase their rof in general with a compensating reduction in raw damage. A t1 torp fit "should" comfortably do 1200 dps imo
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#7 - 2013-12-13 17:38:41 UTC
I've secretly wanted to try out torps ever since i saw my buddy 3 shotting npc battleships with his golem.

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Never forget.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#8 - 2013-12-13 18:05:32 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
The Dev's have already stated they know about the torp problem but they havent the time yet to properly sit down and work out what to do... T2 and pirate ships to balance yet... Twisted

Yes, because they're busy f**king around with heavy missiles and rapid light missile launchers. Everyone's using cruise missiles anyway, so priorities… right?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-12-13 19:25:45 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Yes, because they're busy f**king around with heavy missiles and rapid light missile launchers. Everyone's using cruise missiles anyway, so priorities… right?

There was a dev post after cruise missiles were buffed stating that torpedoes were considered fine and that they didn't intend to look at them for the foreseeable future.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#10 - 2013-12-13 19:29:06 UTC
I cannot say this enough:

nononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononono

No.

No more front loaded missile dps. Screw that!

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#11 - 2013-12-13 20:04:02 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:

I do think that missiles need to increase their rof in general with a compensating reduction in raw damage. A t1 torp fit "should" comfortably do 1200 dps imo


Actually if anything they need the opposite. If you double missile damage and halve their fire rate they become the second alpha damage weapon option in the game, and will suffer much less from wasted volleys due to targets dying.
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#12 - 2013-12-13 20:12:05 UTC
It should be noted that stealth bombers are the real reason we probably aren't going to see any torpedo buffs any time soon.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#13 - 2013-12-13 22:06:50 UTC
Make them AoE damage... :D
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#14 - 2013-12-13 23:05:16 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
Make them AoE damage... :D


They do have AOE damage, believe it or not. 1500m of it.
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#15 - 2013-12-14 02:40:05 UTC
Make them good ole AOE damage. And drop their ROF by half for double alpha. Would be great, would kinda mess with their usefulness in PVE because a 3rd volley would be time consuming.

Actually I wanna see torps take a 20-30sec reload even with buffs.



Then push citadel torps out to a 1 min ROF, but the craziest mofoin damage in the game. LOL Siege mode, can only shoot 5 shots. But during that time, 5 things will bleed. Badly. I wanna see a Phoenix playing like a Derp KV2 in WoT
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-12-14 05:18:32 UTC
Torpedo's should have very long range, very poor agility, be very slow and have high damage, high explosion velocity if they get in range to hit. IMO.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
stoicfaux
#17 - 2013-12-14 05:49:20 UTC
Get rid of the 10% to Cruise/Torp Velocity hull bonuses to eliminate the huge range disparities they cause. Increase Torp range to ~40km. Increase torp DPS a good bit. Missile hulls get an Explosion Radius or Explosion Velocity bonus in place of the missile velocity bonus.

Javelins should underperform compared to Cruise missiles because range belongs to cruise missiles. Torps should significantly out DPS cruise missiles.


On a side note, grouped missiles should get a damage buff proportional to the number of missiles in the group. From a lore point of view, the missile swarm "surrounds" the target ship before detonating, thus increasing damage. This would encourage missile grouping which reduces server load and would give pure missile boats a missile bonus.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#18 - 2013-12-14 08:46:56 UTC
I'd like to see a siege mode where launchers fire multiple charges. It is a stat in the module mechanics so why doesn't it get used?