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A potential method to encourage emigration from high sec to low sec and 00.

Author
DeathsEmbrace
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-11-17 20:22:09 UTC
Before people start flaming this post a little qualification. I am a pirate and have been for years, pvp is my profession, I have partaken in pvp in every environment in eve and tried nearly all the other professions there are in high sec (hs), Low sec (ls) and 00. The biggest issue, and has been for years, in eve is the balance of pilots in the three areas, or lack of pilots in some cases.

TL:DR – Remove concord’s influence from hs incursion systems for the duration of the incursion, with the aim of encouraging hs pilots to emigrate from hs to ls and 00.

The vast majority of pilots live where it is safest in hs, followed by a large proportion in 00 with the block alliances and coalitions. ls has the smallest population due to it mainly being an area of transition from hs to 00. Some pilots just fly straight through ls, others live there on a permanent and temporary basis: pirates; some fw players; and some independents. I’d like to see the population in ls increase and the aim of this post is to try and encourage that. In these forums have been a multitude of ideas from increasing reward to match the risk involved in activities in ls, to ls only mini professions and tasks/content. In reality though all these ideas rely on the hs players having a need/want come to ls and as most will know, most hs players never want to come to ls. If they decide to move from hs its usually straight to 00 which is relatively safe compared with ls. I’d like to suggest working at this problem from a different angle. If the risk in hs was increased its population might not fear to move to ls or 00 as much. Equally, pvp within hs is very restricted and regulated which, whilst good for novice players and those not interested in pvp, doesn’t provide an adequate introduction into the pvp experience that they will experience in ls and 00.

My proposal is this, in hs ‘Incursion systems’ concords influence is removed for the duration of the incursion. There are several direct consequences to this. Incursion fleets would have to consider other fleets and individual pilots as potential hazards. Incursion Systems would become dangerous to any and all occupants regardless of whether you are in the incursion plex’s or not. Hs would have its own areas where pvp is unrestricted and not bound by certain rules and regulations, providing a much better introduction to pvp. The indirect effects of this are several fold as-well. Firstly, depending on which constellations are affected by incursions would inadvertently affect hs logistic operations. Freighting goods and supplies would no longer be a “set destination, apply auto pilot, go make food and watch a movie.” Logistical runs would require careful planning and if necessary escorting and co operation. All forms of industry and pve within the influence of the Incursions would be vulnerable to pvp and would have to account for that vulnerability. Any novice pilots or pvp training hs corps would have unregulated pvp areas where they could learn the ropes and experience pvp in full without the side effects or loosing sec status, or gate guns, or bubbles.

So how does this help with relocating hs dwellers, I hear you ask? Firstly it removes the safety net in hs wherever there is an incursion but only for the incursions duration, effectively encouraging and in some cases forcing hs pilots to risk themselves and their assets. It provides a mobile and unregulated pvp area in which hs pilots whom have never considered pvp, due to “enter ls or 00 and you will die” mentalityTwisted, an opportunity to try pvp and learn/experience pvp without worrying about some of the negative side effects found in ls and 00. Lastly, from a role play perspective, incursions systems are systems where Concord itself is at war with the Sansha Nation and thus are completely tied up with controlling and repelling the Sansha incursion, therefore neglecting its policing role for the duration of the incursion.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2011-11-17 20:30:38 UTC
Weren't incursions going to be like this anyway? I'm pretty sure they were.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#3 - 2011-11-17 20:38:39 UTC
That won't work. You're not encouraging anything... you're discouraging people from doing incursions. Look, it's simple. There are people that simply don't want a low-sec style of gameplay. Period. Suddenly attacking them while they're trying to do incursions will further enforce that thought and drive them to even safer space, i.e. space with no incursions going on.

You need to lure people to low with a carrot, not beat them there with a stick.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2011-11-17 20:56:04 UTC
What Ingvar said. It's impossible to force people into low/nullsec. If you try to force them to do anything, they will leave. The ONLY way to actually get people out of highsec is to convince them that they will be better off in some way in low/nullsec than they are now. Period.
Goose99
#5 - 2011-11-17 21:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
DeathsEmbrace wrote:
Before people start flaming this post a little qualification. I am a pirate and have been for years, pvp is my profession, I have partaken in pvp in every environment in eve and tried nearly all the other professions there are in high sec (hs), Low sec (ls) and 00. The biggest issue, and has been for years, in eve is the balance of pilots in the three areas, or lack of pilots in some cases.

TL:DR – Remove concord’s influence from hs incursion systems for the duration of the incursion, with the aim of encouraging hs pilots to emigrate from hs to ls and 00.

The vast majority of pilots live where it is safest in hs, followed by a large proportion in 00 with the block alliances and coalitions. ls has the smallest population due to it mainly being an area of transition from hs to 00. Some pilots just fly straight through ls, others live there on a permanent and temporary basis: pirates; some fw players; and some independents. I’d like to see the population in ls increase and the aim of this post is to try and encourage that. In these forums have been a multitude of ideas from increasing reward to match the risk involved in activities in ls, to ls only mini professions and tasks/content. In reality though all these ideas rely on the hs players having a need/want come to ls and as most will know, most hs players never want to come to ls. If they decide to move from hs its usually straight to 00 which is relatively safe compared with ls. I’d like to suggest working at this problem from a different angle. If the risk in hs was increased its population might not fear to move to ls or 00 as much. Equally, pvp within hs is very restricted and regulated which, whilst good for novice players and those not interested in pvp, doesn’t provide an adequate introduction into the pvp experience that they will experience in ls and 00.

My proposal is this, in hs ‘Incursion systems’ concords influence is removed for the duration of the incursion. There are several direct consequences to this. Incursion fleets would have to consider other fleets and individual pilots as potential hazards. Incursion Systems would become dangerous to any and all occupants regardless of whether you are in the incursion plex’s or not. Hs would have its own areas where pvp is unrestricted and not bound by certain rules and regulations, providing a much better introduction to pvp. The indirect effects of this are several fold as-well. Firstly, depending on which constellations are affected by incursions would inadvertently affect hs logistic operations. Freighting goods and supplies would no longer be a “set destination, apply auto pilot, go make food and watch a movie.” Logistical runs would require careful planning and if necessary escorting and co operation. All forms of industry and pve within the influence of the Incursions would be vulnerable to pvp and would have to account for that vulnerability. Any novice pilots or pvp training hs corps would have unregulated pvp areas where they could learn the ropes and experience pvp in full without the side effects or loosing sec status, or gate guns, or bubbles.

So how does this help with relocating hs dwellers, I hear you ask? Firstly it removes the safety net in hs wherever there is an incursion but only for the incursions duration, effectively encouraging and in some cases forcing hs pilots to risk themselves and their assets. It provides a mobile and unregulated pvp area in which hs pilots whom have never considered pvp, due to “enter ls or 00 and you will die” mentalityTwisted, an opportunity to try pvp and learn/experience pvp without worrying about some of the negative side effects found in ls and 00. Lastly, from a role play perspective, incursions systems are systems where Concord itself is at war with the Sansha Nation and thus are completely tied up with controlling and repelling the Sansha incursion, therefore neglecting its policing role for the duration of the incursion.

I now declare you the boss of how other people play their game, that they paid for.Cool
mxzf wrote:
What Ingvar said. It's impossible to force people into low/nullsec. If you try to force them to do anything, they will leave. The ONLY way to actually get people out of highsec is to convince them that they will be better off in some way in low/nullsec than they are now. Period.

tl;dr add concord to lolzsecBig smile
Charles Edisson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-11-17 22:57:37 UTC
What you're suggesting just turns HS into 0.0 for a certain period of time, if you want to encourage people out of HS you need to make it less proffitable.
HS incursions have broken the financial aspect of the game, the risk/isk ratios of the various areas of the game is WAY out of ballance. when you can make 125% of the isk in HS for 5% the risk of 0.0 the game is broken. HS incursions need their isk levels reduced massively.
When 0.0 players need to use HS alts to make isk instead of using their mains in the 0.0 space they have fought to take something is wrong.

PS CCP please fix this.
Renfus
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2011-11-18 01:41:37 UTC
Making high sec less profitable then it is will cause people to quit too....
How about this...
put high end ore in high sec.... Cut building cost and material cost in half...
Lowering the cost of ships and mods by half or more and you will see more people in low sec and 0.0 risking there ships and pvping...

((( Alliance Creation ))) Corp Update Service available ( 10,600 Member limit ). ++ Free with Alliance Creation ++ Contact me In-Game.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#8 - 2011-11-18 03:01:26 UTC
There are two things that will "encourage" people out of high sec:


Make Highsec safer BUT (put your flamethrowers down) raise taxes on ALL income in highsec no matter how it was earned and make it a progressive tax whereby it's not a flat percentage rate but a "more you earn the higher your tax bracket" - similar to how RL governments screw us already.

Give all ships (except rookie perhaps) the ability to dial in system-to-system hyperwarp and break out past the Great Wall of Carebear that surrounds high sec. This wall consists mainly of people who have nothing better to do than sit there and kill everything that is "not blue" while the power blocs are NAPed up to each other (for the most part).

With destructable POCOs, raidable moon mining arrays, and untaxed bounties in the great beyond, people will take their chances.


Right now, it's BIG ISK in high sec, gank pipelines in low and 0.0, and therefore no reason to put up with KM addicts, griefers, and NAPed up "defenders".

I write this as one who has used many a wormhole to get to remote 0.0 pockets where I didn't see anyone else for weeks at a time, but I can send a alt in a frig through 0.0 using all of the "how to avoid bubbles" methods and still lose ships. People want a chance, not garanteed gank.






Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#9 - 2011-11-22 09:04:30 UTC
I'm a casual gamer and - yes, I admit - a carebear; meaning the worst type of player to be in 0.0. And yes, currently 0.0 simply lacks appeal to me for various reasons.

As said in another thread, trying to drive people into lowsec or 0.0 at gunpoint won't work. They'd either quit EvE or look for another HiSec occupation which isn't penalized.

One has to like the style of gaming in 0.0 or lowsec to be there and I'd be the first to admit that it isn't for everyone.
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#10 - 2011-11-22 09:22:01 UTC
Fun how PVPers want everyone to fight.

EVE IS NOT PVP ONLY GAME DAMMIT Evil
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#11 - 2011-11-22 09:45:21 UTC
mxzf wrote:
What Ingvar said. It's impossible to force people into low/nullsec. If you try to force them to do anything, they will leave. The ONLY way to actually get people out of highsec is to convince them that they will be better off in some way in low/nullsec than they are now. Period.


Me and some alliances mates would love to try nullsec but we won't cause we know we'd die all the time if we try to settle anything.

Being industrialist i feel frustrated having to buy my high ores but that's life.

I've done like 50 jumps from Amarr to Stain on a noob alt and met like 3 ppl, big deal. They take sov and do nothing with the systems... Greedy big Alliances What?
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-11-22 10:26:40 UTC
Esunisen wrote:
Fun how PVPers want everyone to fight.

EVE IS NOT PVP ONLY GAME DAMMIT Evil


Hehe either you're really oblivious to Market and Resource PVP or you consider PVP to be combat only.

EVE is PVP only, everything you do involves someone else trying to screw you out of it. You want to sell things on the market, you have price wars. You want to mine, you have to compete with other miners for the best ore. You want to move to the areas where you don't have as much competition in the market or the belts, OMG you'll have to defend yourself.

EVE=Everybody VS Everybody

This is the reality of the game whether you realize it or not! The sooner you come to terms with this the better off you'll be.

Now to the OP...

Yes I believe that lowsec needs more population, and removing CONCORD from the incursion systems might seem awesome, but niether you nor I can see the potential consequenses of this.

If I had it my say I'd replace gate/station guns with Navy Patrols, and they will shoot anyone that is an outlaw or has really bad standings. This will make it so if pirates want to gate camp they'll have to find out a way to deal with the patrol. Also I would mix the Belt NPC's with Navy and Pirate NPC's and have them fight, that way people can choose to rat for the Empires, or the Pirates!! Twisted Pilots that are friendly to the empire that controls will have a small patrol come to assist someone who is under attack.

This will prevent some solo ganks and encourage people to feel safer in lowsec, whether or not this is the case idk. I prefer to operate solo when I'm in lowsec and this would really be a pain in the arse for me, but I'm willing to deal with NPC's trying to kill me, if it means I'll have more people to hunt.

It is only an Idea...why wouldn't the empires put in patrols in there low security assets in the first place.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Jaketh Ivanes
Rigorous Rivals
#13 - 2011-11-22 11:31:25 UTC
I think a reversal of the proposal of the OP might lure more people to low sec.
If you have Concord do incursions into low sec, granting protection to the pilots there, then some high sec dwellers (like me) would venture to low sec for a while.
Should there be a mechanic for pirates to throw out concord.... definately. But it should be somewhat hard, requiring some work and the law abiding citizen should be able to assist concord.

I think this carrot would make more people give low sec a try, atleast for a week or so Smile
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#14 - 2011-11-22 14:03:18 UTC
The only way you can get people to move is to increase the resources in lowsec and decreasing hi-sec in a way that doesn't get the carebears to sound like air raid alarms...

Stuff like Frequency on agents making missions slower in high sec space, bigger rats/anomalies in lowsec, stronger sentry cannons, more low-sec belts

Also I believe there is too little lowsec areas. I think a lot of 0,5 systems should become lowsec because right now a lot of pirates and other villains are concentrated in the few lowsec systems already available making it a deathtrap for new pilots to enter
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-11-22 14:16:09 UTC
Going to low sec to pve is the equivalent of taking a swim in a shark pool.

You'll need to make low sec harder to gate camp if you want to attract people that do other activities.
Somal Thunder
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#16 - 2011-11-22 15:14:04 UTC
omg just make mining more profitable in lowsec already, case closed.