Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ship hull rebalancing (also known as "Tiericide", but now expanded beyond tiering issues to Tech 2 and faction ships) has been an extremely welcome change in CCP's approach to Eve. It has resulted in whole swathes of the available hulls in game being promoted from useless and never seen, to becoming valuable cores of a fleet and proven performers in solo and small gang work. It has been arguably the biggest shake-up in Eve's gameplay in years, far above and beyond what are often regarded as the 'headline' features of recent expansions. At the same time, the resources CCP expend on such work are reasonably low - ship rebalancing requires little if anything in terms of new art or audio assets or complex coding work, and can proceed largely independently of the work being carried out by other design teams.

Meanwhile, we find that ship modules and rigs are in a similar position to where the hulls were before the tiericide efforts began. Most low-meta modules are out-classed in every respect by the meta-4 and/or Tech 2 equivalent, being used only in cases of player ignorance, market scarcity or high cost. Many entire ranges are useless and redundant - when was the last time you saw a large capacitor battery, an egress port maximizer, or a shield flux coil on anything but a comedy fit or a particularly clueless newbie? A number of Tech 2 modules also are outright inferior to the meta-4 version, again relegating them to Eve's comedy files. The contrast is glaring.

It is surely a no-brainer for CCP to take the same approach to module balance as we have seen them take with ship balance, and set about a systematic reworking of the module and rig range to apply some sanity and balance. We have seen traces of module rebalancing in recent years, mostly by the existing ship balance team, but these have appeared as scattered isolated blips rather than a continual effort. So, I propose that CCP takes steps to eliminate the glaring imbalances in the existing module and rig range by either founding a new team based on the existing ship rebalancing efforts, or by adding manpower to the existing team and expanding their brief to include the same focus on modules and rigs.

I look forward to your comments and (hopefully) support.

That would be one way of going about it, yes. But I don't claim to be a games designer so I leave the details to CCP.

My basic point is that every module in the database should have a reason to exist, and right now that simply isn't the case in a vast number of cases.

I would love to see this happen.

Meta and even t1 modules having a use for all players, rather than for clueless newbies or because they simply out perform (sometimes even faction mods). It opens up entire realms of possibilities.

Take for example EANM's, there are 7 different types (not including faction, officer or deadspace) and only 1 of those is at all useful, or at least commonly seen which is the t2, yet there is an astounding amount of possibility with these mods.

Just taking for example the first though that comes to my head, t1 being the basic run-of-the-mill version. +15% across the board, and uses less CPU than t2. T2 is an upgraded version of the t1, +5% more resists but more cpu cost. Four of the others perhaps gives 25% to one resist and 15% to each of the others, has the same requirements as t2 with the final one just being removed or something else (cant think of anything, lol). This would have a niche use, such as on a t2 ship allowing you to have an extra resist bonus to the resist hole without having a slot dedicated to resisting only 1 damage type (obv a specific hardener or energized membrane would have to have a much higher resist bonus)

This could be the same for every module type in the game, with faction items being upgraded versions of their corresponding types. This would allow a lot more variety with modules and see so many unused modules suddenly being brought into use and again revolutionizing how we play and how we fit our ships by giving us SO many more options.

Fozzie has mentioned module rebalancing in passing before, yes, but since they still have the faction hulls and much of the T2 range to go through as well as capitals and supercaps, and the balancing minefield that is Tech 3, I don't think they'll be finished on ships any time soon (next summer sounds tremendously optimistic).

I don't think that leaving the current imbalances in place for another 18 months is very desirable.

Some do. Many do not, and in some cases the meta-4 even has fitting benefits over the lower meta levels. Where that is the case, it would be a good example of an unbalanced range that needs to be addressed.


I don't think I've ever seen an egress port on a killmail since for the most part they're overshadowed by the ubiquitous CCC. There may be the odd situational quirk where they pop up, I guess.


I'm not suggesting to change everything for the sake of changing everything, by any means. A number of ships were left virtually untouched during rounds of ship balancing, and for module ranges where power levels are already balanced there's no reason why the same cannot happen again. But what current rebalancing efforts exist seem mostly to be random events when a dev has some spare time in between ship balance work, not as part of an overall plan.

As for meta modules not being player produced, I suspect that may change in the mid-long term (I certainly hope so), and it also works the other way around too - an obvious example being that players who produce T2 MWDs have to compete with the mostly superior loot-seeded meta-modules.

And faction guns ought to be better than T2 guns. Otherwise, there is no use case for them.

Would love to see *metacide* as in that example:

old meta 0 neut < old meta 1 neut < old t2 neut = meta 4 neut

*NEW* meta 0 neut < tech 2 neut in all aspects, but meta 4 neuts more with lower range, meta 3 neuts the same with crippled range and better cap efficiency, meta 2 neut has smaller neut amount for extrarange and the meta 1 neut just cycles faster while doing all the same in the end, so it burns out a lot faster.

So roles instead of ascending metas! (edit: meta-version are better than t1, and - in average - inferior to t2)

the problem with the LP store isn't that they sell junk modules, its that the prices of tags (because who wants to wreck their faction standing?) make them uneconomical compared to equivalent modules that can be obtained from drops, and thus the faction mods are outlets if demand outstrips the supply (faction damage mods being a clear example).

CN hardeners for example are quite useful, they just happen to be not worth buying over DG counterparts.

I agree with your point. But I'll go one step further: If CCP can't think of a good reason for players to use the module*, then they module should be removed from Eve.

Useless modules do nothing for those of us who know they are useless. We know not to use them, so out gameplay is the same as it would be if they didn't exist. All they do is confuse new players.

*Cost can be a good reason to justify a modules existence if the cost is high enough that established players consider it. But not if the difference is so small that only newer players care about it. I've never seen meta 0-4 costs different enough to matter.

The problem is that you cannot (should not) go partial with that. You re-balance that module, but leave that module be for the next patch/expansion. That's not going to work with modules.

Also, tiericide was about giving ships roles. Can you give modules roles; things that are in itself already has a role?