Player Features and Ideas Discussion

you want your discussion? It's friday, I'm at work, and bored enough to entertain you.

so your argument is "alts/holding toons" and ISK/PLEX.
You're obviously talking about SUPERS only then and not normal caps which can comfortably be ditched into a station, right?

If i take up that premise, i'd like to inform you that actually, a Supercapital ship is meant to be a commitment and risk vs. reward. you get in, and you won't leave that ship or fly any other ship until you get blown out of it; for the privilege of flying (at the time of introduction) a pack of pixels of mass destruction.
you can tip the scale into the risky corner if you, lets say want it all and want to also fly other ships, since you then have to leave your organ substituting supercapital in space or in a POS, prone to someone else with the skills to board it and send you a "thank you" card.
the notion of sitter alts came because eve players as so many times found a way to make the game work for them and say "why i need it unmanned and in space? i'll just train an alt, sit it in there and log it out. because, you know, either you know how to make isk and plex your account (free) or you can afford a second account with a normal subscription; either way, a workaround was found.
It nowhere says in any description "we strongly encourage you to have a holding toon for the ship".

Also, i like how now you're shifting this to be a new SOV mechanic and not just a "let's **** with supers" thread. Which one is it? And before you answer, SOV needs to be redone, I agree, but there is a VERY long, VERY well thought of SOV thread in this section of the forum that would blow your mind away, and hopefully stop you right there before even thinking about getting into SOV mechanics.

Also, why are anyone's supers not practical for the corp to use (other than the guy not being online? thats tough luck)
For players it is perfectly practical now.
this thread is about your super overhaul, not about SOV, so stick that someplace else (even though i'd say it could work the same way with current system of supers. Sov would be where the MEMBERS have their caps and pilots. done. simple. don't need this proposal for your sov proposal).

Also, since you come out with the word on other people's opinions :
I believe that everybody reading this thread would agree that the onlyAsinine thing here is your OP.

The idea is interesting and would provide "more" gameplay.

The naming of corp capitals is a bit misleading as they would be set up either corp or personal anyhow through management corporations.

I'm happy to tell you CCP Fozzie already hinted towards this by revealing a picture of a duck mother with ducklings at eve down under. The mothership is making a comeback next summer, and it will likely be your corp capital in the Rubicon context, functioning as a mobile outpost.

They are too secure????? Do you know how many times i've had to defend baby supers and titans before they're fully built? Too often. They are extremely highly vulnerable in the process of being built

And supers in space are highly vulnerable. Most alliances have lists and common log on times and locations for most other alliances supers and titans. They aren't always safe to just log in and pop out of system, not without scouts ahead of time.
They have a lot of risk, and if you actually flew a super or new super or titan pilots you would know this, just by the rampant paranoia alone from those people that fly them.


People have spent years discussing issues with SOV mechanics and honestly not to be an *******, i'm just be blunt. You're idea is one of the worst. and your CC idea is just astronomically and needlessly complicated not to mention utterly unfeasible to implement on multiple levels. (even down to coding)

gonna just make a point here, turned out to be many words sry.



Infrastructure has strontium/reinforcement timers, so no, corps do not have to protect their POSes and infrastructure 23/7. You get a fair amount of time to get your act together to defend your stuff.

Here's an example, live

Supers do not have strontium/reinforcement timers. Supers can die very, very quickly when caught I mean hell do you even follow news reports? If you want all supers to be unable to despawn/logoff you would have every supercapital fleet in the game vying to obliterate eachother the second it is implemented

Does that sound awesome? Wait..that would mean the supercapital force which wins, essentially wins at Eve. They would be able to destroy any and all attempts at new super construction with impunity AND have overwhelming force for taking Sov anywhere they want. The reason this isn't already happening is because you can retreat

You've failed to understand btw >

The reason why nations don't randomly attack eachother is because they're not at war!

if they are then this happens

/brain.

"If you want all supers to be unable to despawn/logoff you would have every supercapital fleet in the game vying to obliterate eachother the second it is implemented

Does that sound awesome?"

Yes it does :D
After it they would find some equilibrium. Because people can still retreat with their player owned capitals and ships. If you get owned you can rebuild by building lots of player owned capitals (could be way more practical to build, ie quicker, in player manufacturing capitals). And then try again.
If you can't appease the biggest threat when you can't beat the biggest threat, then you lose at diplomacy. In other games people would gang up against the biggest threat, but that is games where the average player is still in diapers, not a wise player base such as Eve has

"you would actually make the ship "unlogoffable"???

because as a ceo i would just put a sitter in the "corp" titan. then log off."

Then your sitter just gets moved to the clone bay. And the ship remains in space. And another person jumps into the pilots seat (if need-be, most of the time people won't need to sit in them, only when they are attacked, or are needed elsewhere).

If you wish to have a corp with sov, that is the risk :P
But you can still have your player ships and refineries and smaller moon miners etc, safe and sound. Because you as an individual can't be expected to defend all your stuff 23/7.

"supers can die very quickly" and "reinforcement timers exist so they don't have to defend POS 23/7".
There would be no reinforced. And CC things would have large passive tanks, so you can go save them if you have an appropriate amount of people logged on at the time.

Also, even PL couldn't take down all the universe. If they take more sov they would have more CC to protect (and you can go kick them with subcaps and personal capitals, and they have passive tanks so if PL don't respond you take them down). If they just take down all the capitals of all the other alliances in the game, and don't take sov, they would put themselves up for revenge as the whole universe rebuilds and plans revenge.
This would, I think, be a self-balancing system. Take too much and **** off too many, and you can't possibly defend all your stuffs at one time, even if you have most stuffs of all groups.

Few things:

Scenario (1)
One of my pilots during a battle drops off the internet unintentionally. All of a sudden he's in clone vat bay and the Titan (for purposes) will just stay there, forever, for anyone to board (FIRST WTF MOMENT). One of the guys in fleet, thinks "I have the skills, I have the rights to it as well, lets man it again. But because he's on grid as well, and he has a combat flag / weapons timer, he can't eject from his ship yet (nor board another ship). So the titan just "lays" there because of internet dropping ?!

Scenario (2)
As you put it "GREAT" alliance (A) obliterates alliance (B)'s corp supercapitals. Now, the players still own theirs. But the corp has lost all of their crap. The can, according to my understanding of your system, now no longer hold SOV. HOW THE **** are they supposed to "rebuild" their fleet the way you put it?
This is Chicken/Egg dilemma right there. Your BADLY thrown together model only "works" (and I am using this term VERY loosely right now, to accommodate you), because there are already some Supers in the game.
Imagine a scenario where they all blow up. What then?!
No more supers?

Why this whole hassle then; delete them from the game, reimburse people and save everybody this asinine strain.

Also, other than to hold SOV, why would anyone want a corp/alliance super then?
You're creating a game where SOV is like POS SOV system 2.0, only this time with supers. Alliances will jsut leave the supers in systems (A)-(Z) for SOV, and use personal supers to fight.
The only difference is now without reinforcement timers on supers, you're forcing ALL SOV gameplay to become immobile and stagnant, because why would you leave your SOV holding supers alone? So you have to have people staying there, watching, 23/7ish. GREAT gameplay.

You must have pitched the groundbreaking ideas for Desert Bus

Finally a constructive comment (there has been partial ones before).
Call in some corpies. Maybe someone else has another idea?



Steal sov from another corp by using your player owned manufacturing capitals to make sov capitals and other corp capitals (the big CCs will be difficult to make in unsecured space, but the small ones would perhaps be something you could make anywhere. WH even).


"this is different than it is" - Hence, why did you assume you need sov to build "super"capitals? particularly player owned capitals would be build-able anywhere you can park your manufacturing capital. And you would be able to make Sov capitals with it, if not more corp capitals.


I rather like capitals. They are good fun. But they are sort of stuck between two chairs.
1. Strategic weapon for a group of people to employ to its fullest.
2. Owned by individual and the bonuses from that (fex not having to protect it like you do POS, because you can log off and then it disappears).
If we separated the two, so we had both. We could specify both types for one purpose each, so players can have more fun with their own capitals and corporations can function better to the benefit of its members.

[quote=NaK'Lin]Also, other than to hold SOV, why would anyone want a corp/alliance super then?
You're creating a game where SOV is like POS SOV system 2.0, only this time with supers. Alliances will jsut leave the supers in systems (A)-(Z) for SOV, and use personal supers to fight.
The only difference is now without reinforcement timers on supers, you're forcing ALL SOV gameplay to become immobile and stagnant, because why would you leave your SOV holding supers alone? So you have to have people staying there, watching, 23/7ish. GREAT gameplay./quote]

You don't know how warfare works. You don't have all your stuff neatly distributed so everywhere is weak. You have your stuff in one place and the Sov Capitals would then be strong enough to last until your forces get there. When the battle-horn is sounded the corpies know where to go to pick up corp capitals (and where to go to get bridged by them), and then they head out in a fleet from the corp HQ system.
Some might have several HQs but only as many as make sense. It would be daft if they one time don't have pilots enough to fly all the CCs in one HQ while another has some pilots to spare, so they have to slowboat it over to the second HQ.