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THE END TO AFK MINING?

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Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#161 - 2013-12-12 17:25:43 UTC
Because somehow sitting there watching the mining laser cycle is "playing the game", but going and making a sandwich while it does that isn't.

The problem with mining is that once you get to the belt and start mining, there is no gameplay in the first place. While the idea of a hacking-style mini-game might be somewhat tedious, it's far less so than idiotic ideas like "don't let strip miners auto-repeat because I'm offended that someone doesn't dock up if they need to go take a leak while mining."

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2013-12-12 18:01:49 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Joia Crenca wrote:
Helios Aquiness wrote:
The solotion to AFK mining is to make mining more interactive. Like hacking is now.


When you mine long enough, it becomes interactive. Yes, as you lose your mind, the asteroids begin to talk to you and you give them names!

This of course become an issue when two miners are in the same belt and disagree on the name of a specific asteroid. "You killed Bob!" "His name was Jim, not Bob!"

Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Because somehow sitting there watching the mining laser cycle is "playing the game", but going and making a sandwich while it does that isn't.

The problem with mining is that once you get to the belt and start mining, there is no gameplay in the first place. While the idea of a hacking-style mini-game might be somewhat tedious, it's far less so than idiotic ideas like "don't let strip miners auto-repeat because I'm offended that someone doesn't dock up if they need to go take a leak while mining."

/agree

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

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loco coco
#163 - 2013-12-12 18:02:37 UTC
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Because somehow sitting there watching the mining laser cycle is "playing the game", but going and making a sandwich while it does that isn't.

The problem with mining is that once you get to the belt and start mining, there is no gameplay in the first place. While the idea of a hacking-style mini-game might be somewhat tedious, it's far less so than idiotic ideas like "don't let strip miners auto-repeat because I'm offended that someone doesn't dock up if they need to go take a leak while mining."


This is probably one of the best posts of the thread.

Though it's weird when I think about it. I would NEVER go afk in a combat ship while in space, yet I do it on the off chance that I mine. It's a whole different mindset.
James Nikolas Tesla
Tesla Holdings
#164 - 2013-12-12 19:16:13 UTC
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Because somehow sitting there watching the mining laser cycle is "playing the game", but going and making a sandwich while it does that isn't.

The problem with mining is that once you get to the belt and start mining, there is no gameplay in the first place. While the idea of a hacking-style mini-game might be somewhat tedious, it's far less so than idiotic ideas like "don't let strip miners auto-repeat because I'm offended that someone doesn't dock up if they need to go take a leak while mining."

Also think of what you would be doing in your ship if you were actually there. Would you watch the asteroids slowly melt into nothingness? Or would you crack open a holomagazine and catch up on your favorite 'Concord Files' comic?

CODE is just a bunch of pirates; smart, organized pirates. It doesn't help to rage at them because that is exactly what they want. Dust yourself off and get back on your feet, you don't even have to talk to them.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#165 - 2013-12-12 20:13:19 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
I just had a lightbulb go off... Genius.


Good suggestion. I'd say have mining turrents not auto-fire. Once they finish a cycle they turn off.
Casanunda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2013-12-12 20:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Casanunda
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Casanunda wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If a miner for example, chooses to go afk, and their ship is ganked, then that is the price they pay.

So long as said miner accepts this, there is no problem.

Much as I hate giving you a like that statement is true enough, unfortunately many afk miners don't accept that destruction is a possibility. As far as they're concerned their ships should be sacrosanct because they're "not affecting anyone else", which is a blatant falsehood.

so, why does this justify you telling them to "go **** themselves", they want to play AFK, if they get ganked, they will either learn to watch better, or stop playing, but outright saying "hey, you know this boring as **** thing, well now your not allowed to alt-tab for even 5 minutes cause MINIGAMES, ACTIIVITY, OH SO ENGAGING, loook at these 30 extra cliks we added for you to get roughly the same isk/hr as before!"
Kindly point out where I told afk miners to go forth and fornicate with themselves? I merely agreed with another poster that if a miner decides to go afk and their ship explodes, then that is the cost of being afk. Subjectively mining is a boring activity, if it wasn't then afk mining wouldn't exist.

Quote:
every activity in EVE caters to a playstyle, mining caters to those that have other **** to do than living in a video game, some people have thigns going on literally preventing them from sitting their with eyes glued to the screen, like a baby or a new dog that isnt potty trained.
If you have other stuff to do while mining then that's fine, people may reallocate the pixels that make up your mining vessel while you do your other stuff, complaining about them doing so is your perogative, just as them ridiculing you for doing so is theirs.

Quote:
and forcing activity wont do **** to "keep them from getting ganked", even tanked, if someone wants a mining ship dead, it WILL die, whether theya re active or not. so your entire point is pointless
The same goes for any ship in the game, all the way from Titans down to Frigates. Not being afk, actually fitting a tank and paying attention will help to mitigate the risks, it won't completely remove them.

Try reading what you quoted instead of seeing something that isn't there. People are welcome to afk, just as people are welcome to try and destroy people who aren't paying attention.

The fact that I am not a gazillionaire Gallente aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#167 - 2013-12-12 20:35:09 UTC
James Nikolas Tesla wrote:
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Because somehow sitting there watching the mining laser cycle is "playing the game", but going and making a sandwich while it does that isn't.

The problem with mining is that once you get to the belt and start mining, there is no gameplay in the first place. While the idea of a hacking-style mini-game might be somewhat tedious, it's far less so than idiotic ideas like "don't let strip miners auto-repeat because I'm offended that someone doesn't dock up if they need to go take a leak while mining."

Also think of what you would be doing in your ship if you were actually there. Would you watch the asteroids slowly melt into nothingness? Or would you crack open a holomagazine and catch up on your favorite 'Concord Files' comic?


I don't think they have magazines in pods. Something about liquid and your brain being disconnected from your body at the moment.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#168 - 2013-12-12 22:15:26 UTC
Between the guy writing that EVE isn't pvp-centric, and the one writing that afk-anything isn't detrimental to pgc, I'm really not sure which I disagree with more.

Aside from ship spinning, all activities in EVE are pvp. Player vs. Player. Adjusting a market order to a lower price so your items will sell more quickly? You just screwed someone else out of a sale. pvp. Mining in a system with other miners? You are competing for available resources against other players. Mine the good rocks as quick as possible! pvp. Running missions all by your lonesome shooting red crosses? You are still providing opportunities to other players just by being there. That's pvp too. Ship vs. ship combat is the most obvious form of pvp but because of the nature of the sandbox and the game's capitalistic theme, once you undock, every action you take has the potential to affect other players. That's pvp.

And no one is suggesting that your mining lasers will do anything differently whether you are watching them intently or making a sandwich. But if you are present, you may be chatting with corpmates, accepting contracts, purchasing items on the market, turning wrecks in a belt blue for a noob, targeting a destroyer who lands in your belt, writing on these forums, winning isk on EVE radio, making new contacts, accepting a random conversation, etc. etc. etc. And even if you do none of these things - none whatsoever - it does not change the fact that they are unquestionably less likely to occur if you are afk.

YK
Ivan Krividus
Cold Lazarus Inc
The-Expanse
#169 - 2013-12-12 22:29:25 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I'd suggest next time, just replace the lightbulb.

Ganking is the solution to AFK mining. It brings tears and causes much harsher consequences to AFKing the game.


but theres still tons and tons of people in null just sitting around and afk mining the ore. We need more gankers for the that solution. I agree with OP, because now every AFKer is penalized and the active miners are rewarded with a better market for their hard-earned ore. In fact, make it reduce afk mining by 30% but make it buff active mining by 30% as well
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#170 - 2013-12-12 23:27:41 UTC
I have some different opinions about mining.
I'd like to see mining amount being proportional to effort somehow, because when I mine now and again I always realize again and again that I can get the same amount of ore by also reading a book or doing work while I listen to the mining lasers. Mining I realize is not a rewarding task on its own.
But, I think it is a bit wrong to demand that people sit in front a computer and watch mining lasers with their one and only life. That is hardly a game worthy.
But what is worthy of a game, is the accomplishment of gathering all the resources for building that nice POS one wanted to make, or enough ore to buy a dreadnought. Can't we find a way to somehow get the best of both worlds? (1) Get rid of reward for nothing and (2) make mining a rewarding expenditure of time all on its own.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#171 - 2013-12-12 23:32:09 UTC
meh ... just make a mining depot that is designed to AFK mine and frees the player to take a combat ship to go and do something else.
Halcyon Harvey
Doomheim
#172 - 2013-12-12 23:32:40 UTC
Wait... hang on... stop... roll it back... bring it home... explain this to me...

We have to be at the keyboard to play this game?

Forsaken (An EVE Thing)
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#173 - 2013-12-12 23:45:47 UTC
Halcyon Harvey wrote:
Wait... hang on... stop... roll it back... bring it home... explain this to me...

We have to be at the keyboard to play this game?



In addition, you will only participate in activities deemed worthy by our head forum warriors, and your character will be changed to suit that which is deemed suitable by forum overlords. You *will* play as you are directed to play. You have no other choice!

(Really, really, wait, don't just laugh and walk away or I'll shake my impotent forum fist in your general direction!)
Jimmy O'Shanty
The Westies
#174 - 2013-12-12 23:52:20 UTC
Aim at rock, go make sandwich! FTW!!
Halcyon Harvey
Doomheim
#175 - 2013-12-12 23:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Halcyon Harvey
Joia Crenca wrote:
Halcyon Harvey wrote:
Wait... hang on... stop... roll it back... bring it home... explain this to me...

We have to be at the keyboard to play this game?



In addition, you will only participate in activities deemed worthy by our head forum warriors, and your character will be changed to suit that which is deemed suitable by forum overlords. You *will* play as you are directed to play. You have no other choice!

(Really, really, wait, don't just laugh and walk away or I'll shake my impotent forum fist in your general direction!)

Impotent Forum Fists.

The IFF.

We can launch an ill-fated 0.0 trade hub, call it IFF Margaritas or IFF Boredialis, and dictate policy from the comfort of our hangars... I mean couches... while the rest of the universe tries to do "productive" things with their time.

Christ I've been playing this terrible game for far too long.

Incidentally, when I'm "online", this is what's at my keyboard.

Forsaken (An EVE Thing)
Pontianak Sythaeryn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2013-12-13 00:55:07 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
It has a 1 minute cycle and does not repeat. When it's on, your mining yield is normal (what it currently is). When it's offline, your mining yield drops in half.

Miners who wanted to AFK would get **** income and thus not AFK as much.

Genius.


Many players find mining to be boring.

Your idea would punish players who afk what is ultiamtely not what many players find a fun activity.

Wouldn't this just be punishing the players for what many people think is a boring game mechanic? Wouldn't this just encourage less mining, resulting in higher prices for all involved? I mean, ultimately that is what I see is the reason most people would afk mine, it's not a fun mechanic, and those that bump afk miners are just punishing the wrong people.
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#177 - 2013-12-13 01:01:21 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
Between the guy writing that EVE isn't pvp-centric, and the one writing that afk-anything isn't detrimental to pgc, I'm really not sure which I disagree with more.

Aside from ship spinning, all activities in EVE are pvp. Player vs. Player. Adjusting a market order to a lower price so your items will sell more quickly? You just screwed someone else out of a sale. pvp. Mining in a system with other miners? You are competing for available resources against other players. Mine the good rocks as quick as possible! pvp. Running missions all by your lonesome shooting red crosses? You are still providing opportunities to other players just by being there. That's pvp too. Ship vs. ship combat is the most obvious form of pvp but because of the nature of the sandbox and the game's capitalistic theme, once you undock, every action you take has the potential to affect other players. That's pvp.

And no one is suggesting that your mining lasers will do anything differently whether you are watching them intently or making a sandwich. But if you are present, you may be chatting with corpmates, accepting contracts, purchasing items on the market, turning wrecks in a belt blue for a noob, targeting a destroyer who lands in your belt, writing on these forums, winning isk on EVE radio, making new contacts, accepting a random conversation, etc. etc. etc. And even if you do none of these things - none whatsoever - it does not change the fact that they are unquestionably less likely to occur if you are afk.

YK

If the person in question had any of those things to do, theyd be at the keyboard whether they were mining or not. People go afk while mining because they have nothing else to do. The solution to keeping people at the keyboard while mining is to make it more interesting. Forcing them to sit there and watch the laser cycle is impossible, and forcing them to click rather than autorepeat is just introducing more tedium and disincentivising mining at all.

Its tautological that people are more likely to chat, post, or whatever at the keyboard. Duh. Forcing them to sit there when they dont have those activities to do will not create more of those activities out of thin air. At best, it will result in more views on YouTube. At worst, people will quit because they are expected to sit and cycle a module because that somehow "generates content."

It doesn't. Period.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Taal Khurin
Acorn Harvesting
#178 - 2013-12-13 01:02:50 UTC
Why do people have to moan and create "solutions" to problems that don't really exist about things they don't care about or even do?..

Weirdos!
Casanunda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#179 - 2013-12-13 01:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Casanunda
Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:

Many players find mining to be boring.
Agreed

Quote:
Your idea would punish players who afk what is ultiamtely not what many players find a fun activity.

Wouldn't this just be punishing the players for what many people think is a boring game mechanic? Wouldn't this just encourage less mining, resulting in higher prices for all involved? I mean, ultimately that is what I see is the reason most people would afk mine, it's not a fun mechanic, and those that bump afk miners are just punishing the wrong people.

It's not punishment for doing a boring activity, it's an attempt to make said activity less boring and thus not afkable. If people mine less because of it and the prices go up then mining becomes a more profitable activity, hence more people will mine because of both necessity and profitability.

The fact that I am not a gazillionaire Gallente aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#180 - 2013-12-13 01:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Shorten the cycle time to 1 second. Mine a belt in 5 minutes. No more AFK-mining. None-mined belts become rare in high-sec, Venture out into null-sec to mine.