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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1381 - 2013-12-11 19:20:45 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
If you two don't get a room for your love games soon I reckon one of the moderators will remove your posts (and this one Big smile)


You can tell it's time for CCP to step in and say something again when we've run so completely out of things to fight about that we start openly attacking each other.
Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1382 - 2013-12-11 19:33:03 UTC
Can we all.just get along and play nice?

Oh wait this is Eve, no such thing as being nice.

"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1383 - 2013-12-11 20:00:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
First off you killed a nado with 3 drone boats, again impressive how? A frigate can take a nado one on one. And attacking a 1400mm fit nado, so he was easily within range, really that's the KM you links? And the Domi and Ishtar might be at the top, but I bet a TON the the kills were with med and scout drones, a lot more then without. And A LOT of the sentry kills were on some type of structure too.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875592
Berserker II for the Isktar and not even top damage done

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875573
Orge IIs and jumped on him in a site, not top damage either

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875828
Isktar used Hammerhead IIs

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875763
Got you a Garde II one

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875809
got you another Garde II one

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875271
Hammerhead IIs

BTW haven't found even one kill with a Domi. So something is messed up my the KB, OR they don't show structure kills, and that where the Domi kills are. Ishtar is a a good few kills but not anymore they other cruisers, and the math there doesn't add up with KBs either. And sentries are used as much as heavies, meds, so again your point is invalid. Oh btw it seems when they do use sentries it's for gate camping as they always have a number of web and scram/disruptor boats with them. Good try though. I went to page 18 and stopped. So whatever we were going on about, again drone boats are nice in PvP for structure killing and camping. And sentries aren't use anymore then other drone types.

And no my view are pretty legit. You say exploring ships need to be able to move around pretty easy. ALL ships need that. Giving a BS a covert cloak or covert cyno isn't needed for the Nestor to explore. It can get around and do it's job. Get it to 0.0 with a carrier or JF, and when you go explore take a scout like EVERYONE does and have tacs and safes. This isn't hard, it's how living in 0.0 works. Giving it the bonuses you are asking is just crazy and not needed. Learn to move around in 0.0 and you will usually be ok. Will you always, no, but thats why you don't fly what you can't afford to loose. Nestor doesn't need a covert cloak, or a covert cyno, or bastion or 20% to drone HP and damage.

Are there going to be issues with the ship, I'm sure there will be, but that can be happened on SiSi if proper testing is done. Do I believe that SoE ship BPs should be found in ghost sites or somewhere, yes I fully believe that. But I do not believe it needs half of the things people thinks it does.

But all in all we will see soon enough won't we. And I hope you all keeping getting butt hurt, makes this all that much more fun :^ )
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1384 - 2013-12-11 20:24:13 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:

And no my view are pretty legit. You say exploring ships need to be able to move around pretty easy. ALL ships need that. Giving a BS a covert cloak or covert cyno isn't needed for the Nestor to explore. It can get around and do it's job. Get it to 0.0 with a carrier or JF, and when you go explore take a scout like EVERYONE does and have tacs and safes. This isn't hard, it's how living in 0.0 works. Giving it the bonuses you are asking is just crazy and not needed. Learn to move around in 0.0 and you will usually be ok. Will you always, no, but thats why you don't fly what you can't afford to loose. Nestor doesn't need a covert cloak, or a covert cyno, or bastion or 20% to drone HP and damage.

I'm still thinking jump capability to covert cyno's would help this out a lot, possibly in place of the RR bonuses.

If it doesn't have something it won't really be desirable for the task at hand. Oddly the Astero and Stratios didn't need the ability to fit covert cloaks, so we already have ships where just because other T1's/faction ships have a limitation doesn't mean these should. And while your suggestions work, why should it be an entire different scale of logistics to get the Nestor to do the same as it's smaller counterparts while still leaving it's actual use more restricted?

"It doesn't need x" != "It shouldn't have x to make it more useable"
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#1385 - 2013-12-11 20:37:53 UTC
I still think this thing it very "meh", both visually, and more importantly mechanically. It's not bad per se so much as bland and kind of uninspired. The RR bonus just doesn't scream exploration in any way.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1386 - 2013-12-11 20:51:56 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
First off you killed a nado with 3 drone boats, again impressive how? A frigate can take a nado one on one. And attacking a 1400mm fit nado, so he was easily within range, really that's the KM you links? And the Domi and Ishtar might be at the top, but I bet a TON the the kills were with med and scout drones, a lot more then without. And A LOT of the sentry kills were on some type of structure too.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875592
Berserker II for the Isktar and not even top damage done

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875573
Orge IIs and jumped on him in a site, not top damage either

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875828
Isktar used Hammerhead IIs

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875763
Got you a Garde II one

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875809
got you another Garde II one

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20875271
Hammerhead IIs

BTW haven't found even one kill with a Domi. So something is messed up my the KB, OR they don't show structure kills, and that where the Domi kills are. Ishtar is a a good few kills but not anymore they other cruisers, and the math there doesn't add up with KBs either. And sentries are used as much as heavies, meds, so again your point is invalid. Oh btw it seems when they do use sentries it's for gate camping as they always have a number of web and scram/disruptor boats with them. Good try though. I went to page 18 and stopped. So whatever we were going on about, again drone boats are nice in PvP for structure killing and camping. And sentries aren't use anymore then other drone types.

And no my view are pretty legit. You say exploring ships need to be able to move around pretty easy. ALL ships need that. Giving a BS a covert cloak or covert cyno isn't needed for the Nestor to explore. It can get around and do it's job. Get it to 0.0 with a carrier or JF, and when you go explore take a scout like EVERYONE does and have tacs and safes. This isn't hard, it's how living in 0.0 works. Giving it the bonuses you are asking is just crazy and not needed. Learn to move around in 0.0 and you will usually be ok. Will you always, no, but thats why you don't fly what you can't afford to loose. Nestor doesn't need a covert cloak, or a covert cyno, or bastion or 20% to drone HP and damage.

Are there going to be issues with the ship, I'm sure there will be, but that can be happened on SiSi if proper testing is done. Do I believe that SoE ship BPs should be found in ghost sites or somewhere, yes I fully believe that. But I do not believe it needs half of the things people thinks it does.

But all in all we will see soon enough won't we. And I hope you all keeping getting butt hurt, makes this all that much more fun :^ )



You have 9 kills ever

not sure you are entitled to a view.

I have about 50 kills with sentries this month.....so yeah.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1387 - 2013-12-11 21:03:12 UTC
Quote:
I'm still thinking jump capability to covert cyno's would help this out a lot, possibly in place of the RR bonuses.

If it doesn't have something it won't really be desirable for the task at hand. Oddly the Astero and Stratios didn't need the ability to fit covert cloaks, so we already have ships where just because other T1's/faction ships have a limitation doesn't mean these should. And while your suggestions work, why should it be an entire different scale of logistics to get the Nestor to do the same as it's smaller counterparts while still leaving it's actual use more restricted?

"It doesn't need x" != "It shouldn't have x to make it more useable"


Tyberius Franklin,

You make a good point. Also the Astero and Stratios can fit covery cloaks, an ability only T2 ships were able to have before. So giving the Nestor the able to use covery cynos and regular cynos isn't really too much of a stretch. The only issue I see is that the Astero and Stratios can't light a covery cyno can they? So a covery or recon would have to light the covert cyno for the Nestor. All in all I don't see a use for a RR on the Nestor either, think a cloak velocity bonus and maybe able to jump through cynos would be a better bonus. But I also doubt CCP will change it. I DO NOT see a use for a covert cloak, bastion or 20% to drone damage and HP though, those ideas are just well out there.

So CCP Rise, any input?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1388 - 2013-12-11 21:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Quote:
I'm still thinking jump capability to covert cyno's would help this out a lot, possibly in place of the RR bonuses.

If it doesn't have something it won't really be desirable for the task at hand. Oddly the Astero and Stratios didn't need the ability to fit covert cloaks, so we already have ships where just because other T1's/faction ships have a limitation doesn't mean these should. And while your suggestions work, why should it be an entire different scale of logistics to get the Nestor to do the same as it's smaller counterparts while still leaving it's actual use more restricted?

"It doesn't need x" != "It shouldn't have x to make it more useable"


Tyberius Franklin,

You make a good point. Also the Astero and Stratios can fit covery cloaks, an ability only T2 ships were able to have before. So giving the Nestor the able to use covery cynos and regular cynos isn't really too much of a stretch. The only issue I see is that the Astero and Stratios can't light a covery cyno can they? So a covery or recon would have to light the covert cyno for the Nestor. All in all I don't see a use for a RR on the Nestor either, think a cloak velocity bonus and maybe able to jump through cynos would be a better bonus. But I also doubt CCP will change it. I DO NOT see a use for a covert cloak, bastion or 20% to drone damage and HP though, those ideas are just well out there.

So CCP Rise, any input?

A covert cloak BS is something CCP seems terrified of and as such I don't think we'll be seeing this become the first. I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it. That and the Bastion/20% drone bonus I agree are over the top.

Oddly, the bastion was being criticized as the worst thing ever by some in the Marauder thread, but it's already being brought up as a fix to other things now that it's out. Good times.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#1389 - 2013-12-11 21:26:57 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:


Oddly, the bastion was being criticized as the worst thing ever by some in the Marauder thread, but it's already being brought up as a fix to other things now that it's out. Good times.


It's almost like we don't operate with a single hive mind or something.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1390 - 2013-12-11 21:28:24 UTC
Onictus,

Haha I love you, you get proven wrong so go straight to insults and my KBs. Like I have stated before, do you REALLY think this is my PvP toon, or maybe my ISK making toon? You don't think I have other toons? You are so sad, it's ok I pretty much saw you going there at some point. I have 2 other toons both with over 1000 kills. Hell one has over 300 kills just in daredevils. So you are big a bad because you get kills with sentries in big gate camps? Get over 300 kills in a daredevil, over 100 in a Harpy and Hawk, then I MIGHT be impressed, I doubt it though. But the best part of this is how you just made yourself look, good job. I never said sentries werent good, I onyl said they aren't use as much as heds or scouts, and I'm right they aren't, because pretty much every ship cruiser and up can use at least scouts and do. So you will always see more scouts and meds then sentries. Also the few kills this toon has he got top damage in a frigate on a Tempest, not too bad at all. And Solo kills an Omen in a frigate. He is also a 2011 toon with over 65mil SP, not doing too bad I'd say.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15363722

http://www.eve-legio.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=53281
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1391 - 2013-12-11 22:42:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Tyberius Franklin wrote:


Oddly, the bastion was being criticized as the worst thing ever by some in the Marauder thread, but it's already being brought up as a fix to other things now that it's out. Good times.



I don't have marauders trained on this guy because I hate the bastion, you simply can't be on grid in my neck of the woods for a minute straight, someone will notice and they will drop you.

...for the high sec set, yeah awesome.

Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:


Haha I love you, you get proven wrong so go straight to insults and my KBs. Like I have stated before, do you REALLY think this is my PvP toon, or maybe my ISK making toon? You don't think I have other toons? You are so sad, it's ok I pretty much saw you going there at some point.



lol so unsubstantiated forum alt.

Actually from the "no sentries in PvP" comments I'm betting that is your main and you are talking from your brown-eye. Please spare me.

Or post wth a real toon. THEN tell about PvP.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1392 - 2013-12-11 22:48:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
Thaddeus Eggeras thinks everyone lives in null sec and just needs a ship to rat in one system... How cute :)

Really, carebears should stop posting.

Let's try and stay on topic shall we.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1393 - 2013-12-11 22:53:37 UTC
Control your space in 0.0 and you can use bastion easy with little worry. You should be able to know whats going on a couple jumps out.

Haha yes this is my mine. with 9 kills, I know how to rock a cruise in a frigate easy and be top damage on a BS in a frigate. You really aren't too smart, but nice try covering up your stupidity. I even proved your sentry talk was BS. NO domi kills on that board 18 pages in and the Ishtar ones only around alf even were using sentries, other were heavies and mediums. Why do you even keep posting? Trying to make yourself feel less wrong? Here ya go, I'm sowwy I proved you colpetely wrong, that I showed how much a child you are, and how easy it is to mess with you. Sowwy.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1394 - 2013-12-11 22:55:29 UTC
You are right, everyone having fun does live in null and love to PvP. Don't worry I don't run sites to make my billions, takes too long, much better and faster ways to make ISK. And I have pointed out a few times where and how a Nestor can be used in exploring PvE, PvP and WH. Try to go back and read before trying to be so cool.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1395 - 2013-12-11 23:10:02 UTC
Your talking rubbish and nothing you say has any relevance to me. Suggesting that this ship can be used as an exploration ship providing you have a carrier or a jump freighter is ridiculous.

Lets's agree to disagree from now on because people are just going around in circles with you.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1396 - 2013-12-11 23:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Yeah, if we could just get back to talking about the ship this thread is about, that'd be greeeat.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Mordecay Toth
Biber Hyper Logistics
#1397 - 2013-12-11 23:53:49 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Mordecay Toth wrote:
hmmm...the design isnt very well.
sorry CCP but the current Nestor desing doesnt fit with the other SOE ships!
put the "ring" to the thrustersection an get rid of these "wings".
create a new front with a dronebay.

maybe like this:
[url]http://www.imagebanana.com/view/mejsr4op/Nestor.jpg[/url]Nestor

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
20% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
100% bonus to drone microwarpspeed
25% bonus to drone control range
50% increased strength for scan probes
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Can fit covert ops cloking devises

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 12250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125/400
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 900

By the way you say it, you want the ship to look like a big stratios. It looks really good this way, anad I hope they intend to keep it that way.

Also, even I, with my drone obsession, will say that 20% bonus to hp/damage per level is a little ridiculous- that's the equivalent of ten sentries with five of them fielded, at Gal BS V.

I'd love to have that Cool Actually, that could justify the price tag, having that much DPS potential.

Slot layout would be nice at 7-5-7, but 7-6-6 works just as well.

Drone bay is meant to be big- having 500m3 is a perfect size.

As for bonuses, it should, with the way it is currently, while also taking your and my ideas into consideration, have:

Amarr BS:
4% bonus to armor resistances per level

Gallente BS:
12.5% bonus to drone HP and damage per level

50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% bonus to drone velocity, tracking and optimal range
50% increase to scan strength of probes
100% bonus to repair amount of armor repair drones
450% bonus to cloaked velocity /or/ +2 warp core strength
+15 virus strength to analyzers

It doesn't need covops cloak in this case, at least not anywhere near as much

Also, it could use a jump drive.

I like the bigger cargohold though.

Either way, it's cool already- this would serve to balance it to the price (I know what you're thinking, Thad, but this is my own opinion- we'll still have a strip club)

I'd fly this, but I'd also fly the current nessie P



how about **** the lasers and add a 20% bonus to drones. ship does 1000-1100 dps with navy ogres, 1200-1300 with ogre 2's. Id prefer the navy ogres, the ehp on a 10% bonused domi would total aound 6-7k, plus resists. @ 20% maybe 17k + resists?
As for leaving drones, you fail.
600m3 drone bay.



it was just a sugestion^^
but 12.5% bonus to drone HP and damage per level makes a lot more sense
i prefer a covert ops cloking devise without any velocity bonus. Its the first time we see a SOE Ship, they are good at hiding^^

Think about that: SOE uses Amarrian an Galentean technologies so it they could easily melt both designs into one.
But they come with a completly different design, something very very unique.
Maybe they managed to get theire hands on some Terranblueprints and are trying to rebuild those ships with the current technilogy.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1398 - 2013-12-12 02:18:01 UTC
The more I think about it, the more I actually like the idea of SoE bridges that only SoE ships can go through.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1399 - 2013-12-12 02:26:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
And no my view are pretty legit. You say exploring ships need to be able to move around pretty easy. ALL ships need that. Giving a BS a covert cloak or covert cyno isn't needed for the Nestor to explore. It can get around and do it's job. Get it to 0.0 with a carrier or JF, and when you go explore take a scout like EVERYONE does and have tacs and safes. This isn't hard, it's how living in 0.0 works. Giving it the bonuses you are asking is just crazy and not needed. Learn to move around in 0.0 and you will usually be ok. Will you always, no, but thats why you don't fly what you can't afford to loose. Nestor doesn't need a covert cloak, or a covert cyno, or bastion or 20% to drone HP and damage.


1. Most ships cruiser size and down can move around pretty easily because they can always MWD back to the gate, and it's fairly difficult to kill them before they reach it, especially if they have a cloak fitted as well that requires you to decloak them and still cuts off a major part of the distance back even if you do. BCs and BSes need help because they have basically no chance of making it, and this is why few people roam around in them.

2. Needing a scout on an exploration ship already fails it as an exploration ship. Why don't I just use two Tengus and ditch the scout?

Oh, and at this thing's price level you're going to hit a login trap, and those can't be scouted unless you never enter a system with even a single neutral or red in it.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1400 - 2013-12-12 03:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Galphii
The Sisters of Eve are about two things:
1. Exploration
2. Rendering aid

The exploration aspect has been well covered by the Astero & Stratios, and as many have pointed out, nobody is going to take the Nestor out into dangerous space (in its present incarnation) to run sites when the smaller, cheaper ships can do the job just as well, faster, and with less isk on the line should the pilot get caught.

The covert ops cloak has deservedly been a contentious topic, because something this big and this potentially dangerous shouldn't be that elusive, but at the same time it's got to have either a covert ops cloak or a jump drive to really be useful outside of HS.

Rendering aid hasn't really been touched aside from a minor remote rep bonus, and a BS sized vessel could be ideally suited for this, becoming the centrepoint of an aid/exploration fleet which relies on escorts more than other battleships. I can think of a few options of capturing the essence of this style;

* Gains jump drive in place of 50% laser range bonus.
* Loses drone damage and HP bonus, gains 50% range bonus to remote armour, shield and cap transfer modules per gallente battleship level.
* Gains 200,000m3 ship maintenance bay in place of probing bonus.
* Loses 1 high slot & 1 turret and gains 1 low slot.

So it'd be a light carrier, basically. I think it'd be something unique - a subcapital remote rep specialist ship which can be cyno'd into an emergency, or to get past gatecamps when doing pure exploration.

Edit: Oh, I'd also point out to the devs that pirate ships of different sizes in the same organisation don't need to keep the exact same bonuses, as evidenced by the angel cartel ships.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.