These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[NERF] Serpentis web bonus change

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#881 - 2013-12-11 09:57:20 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:


Just to be innovative here...how about serpentis ships get a bonus to drug use (effectiveness and penalty reduction...as in if you even get a penalty the effect of it is halved or maybe the duration cut by 75% so you have a window to use it optimally).

*just a thought*


That would certainly be an interesting bonus for some ships.



For pirate ships I think they should push the edge in a different way than t2 or navy. Navy is fine with tracking and dps...pirate should be doing interesting things with game mechanics.

For example: Guristas/Sansha: Hardwiring implant effectiveness bonus (50%) Role bonus
Serpentis/Angel: Drug Penalty Reduction (-25% penalty duration and -25% penalty effectiveness) Role Bonus
Bloodraider: I haven't thought of it yet...

But something like that. Push the envelope with game mechanics that haven't been used with ships actively yet. Make these ships feel like they are pushing the edge illegally...like pirates would. They should be more fragile in terms of resistances than t2 and perhaps less sturdy in terms of capacitor and sensors and 'conventional' systems...but they should be bleeding edge somehow.

Maybe they all get the drug bonus I dunno but I prefer flavor over an esoteric idea of balance. It would help give them all their proper niche. These aren't necessarily fleet vessels...but pirate raiding ships. So building in the idea of "burst" effectiveness seems like a good idea at least on the surface.

imao, that is exactly what angel / serpentis ships are doing right now, having an interesting edge on a specific game mechanic, speed / agility and web mechanism.

what i miss in fact is that the guristas and blood raider does NOT have such specific roles

Guristas maybe, but Blood Raiders definitely have a specific role in using webs and cap warfare to effectively remove ships from being able to have any effect on combat.

As to the proposed, the ideas seem harder to take advantage of and less accessible than the current ones. Unique yes and possibly more flexible, but ultimately I have a hard time seeing them allowing the ships that are attractive because of their bonuses retain that attractiveness.

i did not included Blood because the web is, for me, relevant to serpentis, i think blood would be better having something on their own.

as for the cap warfare bonus, it was never unique, thx to pilgrim / curse, and now armageddon, so imao, i'd say keep angel ad serp the way they are, and balance blood raider and guristas instead, giving them something specific, something that will make them stand as pirate ship, like they deserve in the first place
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#882 - 2013-12-11 10:21:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Stasis webifier effects do indeed have a stacking penalty. It's actually a good point that we should add a mention of that fact to their descriptions.


Sup, idle thought of the day here, would adding a flat max velocity penalty as well as stacking penalties help slightly? (So that only up to 90% of velocity can ever be reduced in total.) Should at least help reduce the 'you are completely boned forever' if you get two 90% webs on you.
Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc.
Rogue Caldari Union
#883 - 2013-12-11 10:34:55 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:


Just to be innovative here...how about serpentis ships get a bonus to drug use (effectiveness and penalty reduction...as in if you even get a penalty the effect of it is halved or maybe the duration cut by 75% so you have a window to use it optimally).

*just a thought*


That would certainly be an interesting bonus for some ships.



For pirate ships I think they should push the edge in a different way than t2 or navy. Navy is fine with tracking and dps...pirate should be doing interesting things with game mechanics.

For example: Guristas/Sansha: Hardwiring implant effectiveness bonus (50%) Role bonus
Serpentis/Angel: Drug Penalty Reduction (-25% penalty duration and -25% penalty effectiveness) Role Bonus
Bloodraider: I haven't thought of it yet...

But something like that. Push the envelope with game mechanics that haven't been used with ships actively yet. Make these ships feel like they are pushing the edge illegally...like pirates would. They should be more fragile in terms of resistances than t2 and perhaps less sturdy in terms of capacitor and sensors and 'conventional' systems...but they should be bleeding edge somehow.

Maybe they all get the drug bonus I dunno but I prefer flavor over an esoteric idea of balance. It would help give them all their proper niche. These aren't necessarily fleet vessels...but pirate raiding ships. So building in the idea of "burst" effectiveness seems like a good idea at least on the surface.



Keeping on this tangent, I really like these ideas. To be honest I'd like to see more types of drugs/more integration of drugs with ships/implants. Less warp speed implants more drug strength implants.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#884 - 2013-12-11 17:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Stasis webifier effects do indeed have a stacking penalty. It's actually a good point that we should add a mention of that fact to their descriptions.


Sup, idle thought of the day here, would adding a flat max velocity penalty as well as stacking penalties help slightly? (So that only up to 90% of velocity can ever be reduced in total.) Should at least help reduce the 'you are completely boned forever' if you get two 90% webs on you.

I can see CCP removing a Vindicator mid slot before fiddling with something like that.
Wich is not bad... as long as they add another high with a 9th turret slot on it. Twisted

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#885 - 2013-12-11 18:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Nag'o wrote:
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Stasis webifier effects do indeed have a stacking penalty. It's actually a good point that we should add a mention of that fact to their descriptions.


Sup, idle thought of the day here, would adding a flat max velocity penalty as well as stacking penalties help slightly? (So that only up to 90% of velocity can ever be reduced in total.) Should at least help reduce the 'you are completely boned forever' if you get two 90% webs on you.

I can see CCP removing a Vindicator mid slot before fiddling with something like that.
Wich is not bad... as long as they add another high with a 9th turret slot on it. Twisted


:) i would rather see serpentis line get shield tanked instead here's why :-
1. armour + blasters are a bad combo --shortest range + armour slowing it's speed/ ability to close range
2. its would provide a difference between gallente ships like the megathron and the vindi
3. with a web strength bonus and being shield tanked limiting its free mid slots is a good idea an 8-7-5 layout with a 5% web strength bonus

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#886 - 2013-12-11 18:43:11 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Stasis webifier effects do indeed have a stacking penalty. It's actually a good point that we should add a mention of that fact to their descriptions.


Sup, idle thought of the day here, would adding a flat max velocity penalty as well as stacking penalties help slightly? (So that only up to 90% of velocity can ever be reduced in total.) Should at least help reduce the 'you are completely boned forever' if you get two 90% webs on you.

I can see CCP removing a Vindicator mid slot before fiddling with something like that.
Wich is not bad... as long as they add another high with a 9th turret slot on it. Twisted


:) i would rather see serpentis line get shield tanked instead here's why :-
1. armour + blasters are a bad combo --shortest range + armour slowing it's speed/ ability to close range
2. its would provide a difference between gallente ships like the megathron and the vindi
3. with a web strength bonus and being shield tanked limiting its free mid slots is a good idea an 8-7-5 layout with a 5% web strength bonus


You are a bad person.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#887 - 2013-12-11 20:47:56 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Stasis webifier effects do indeed have a stacking penalty. It's actually a good point that we should add a mention of that fact to their descriptions.


Sup, idle thought of the day here, would adding a flat max velocity penalty as well as stacking penalties help slightly? (So that only up to 90% of velocity can ever be reduced in total.) Should at least help reduce the 'you are completely boned forever' if you get two 90% webs on you.

I can see CCP removing a Vindicator mid slot before fiddling with something like that.
Wich is not bad... as long as they add another high with a 9th turret slot on it. Twisted


:) i would rather see serpentis line get shield tanked instead here's why :-
1. armour + blasters are a bad combo --shortest range + armour slowing it's speed/ ability to close range
2. its would provide a difference between gallente ships like the megathron and the vindi
3. with a web strength bonus and being shield tanked limiting its free mid slots is a good idea an 8-7-5 layout with a 5% web strength bonus

Absolutely terrible idea.
Vindicator is second in speed to the Machariel. It goes super fast even when properly tanked. Maybe remove mids to add to lows, but the max 90% web is a good idea.

90% web in itself is by no means OP. It's damn good, yes, but not OP. It becomes OP when you can dual 90% web someone for a total of 99%.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#888 - 2013-12-11 22:00:33 UTC
I kind of like the idea that no ship can slowed more than 90%.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Omega Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#889 - 2013-12-12 04:31:46 UTC
Im so proud of NightmareX Big smile I we had have such a devoted guy defending rlml against the evil CCP tyrays!
NaK'Lin
Seamen Force
#890 - 2013-12-12 05:32:51 UTC
I read half of the thread, then I fell asleep at the curse vs BS discussion derail.

Just food for thought though:

I don't see a problem with serpentis & webbing bonus. As some others pointed out, I don't want to fly different textures worth of the same ship. And most certainly not Drake: Online, to put it into hyperbole.

I sadly am old and I've been playing games for far too long. But I believe balance is not necessarily achieved by making everything vanilla. I enjoy unique features. And the Serpentis features are, besides being unique also very powerful. But they are only so under a specific set of circumstances.
Let's face it, if it were THAT much OP, everybody would be flying a vindicator or at least a Vigilant. People aren't.

I wouldn't go up against a vigilant or a Vindicator in a brawling match. Most certainly not. But isn't a game based on Rock, Papers, Scissors nicer? ANYTHING that is range fit will destroy Serpentis ships and also make their webs moot, because... range.

I don't thinkwe want a game where when you see a ship, you can undock in ANY ship, no matter what, because it will ALWAYS be an "even" fight, no matter what. Then why train for anything else but one hull?

Serpentis bonus is situational. And like most fights, the advantage lies with the agressor. If they spotted the vindi + gang and set up for it, the vindi will possibly be of little use. If the agressor was vindi + gang, i'm sure they'll make sure to have a warp-in at 0 or in brawling range for it.

So, why all of a sudden all this OP screaming. the vindi is a blinky megathron not worth a damn **** without its damage application thru webs and without its "crowd control" factor in close ranges.

my 2c.

--NaK
NaK'Lin
Seamen Force
#891 - 2013-12-12 05:36:03 UTC
@ michael :

Iff 90% webs were so much better than anything in the game and the pinaccle of being OP, why didn't you use those in your nano days? Possibly too expensive and mostly not fast enugh?

Do not tell me that during the hatchery times, they wouldn't have LOL'ed hard at a vindy or a vigilant when nanoing around. seriously.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#892 - 2013-12-12 05:38:59 UTC
NaK'Lin wrote:
I read half of the thread, then I fell asleep at the curse vs BS discussion derail.

Just food for thought though:

I don't see a problem with serpentis & webbing bonus. As some others pointed out, I don't want to fly different textures worth of the same ship. And most certainly not Drake: Online, to put it into hyperbole.

I sadly am old and I've been playing games for far too long. But I believe balance is not necessarily achieved by making everything vanilla. I enjoy unique features. And the Serpentis features are, besides being unique also very powerful. But they are only so under a specific set of circumstances.
Let's face it, if it were THAT much OP, everybody would be flying a vindicator or at least a Vigilant. People aren't.

I wouldn't go up against a vigilant or a Vindicator in a brawling match. Most certainly not. But isn't a game based on Rock, Papers, Scissors nicer? ANYTHING that is range fit will destroy Serpentis ships and also make their webs moot, because... range.

I don't thinkwe want a game where when you see a ship, you can undock in ANY ship, no matter what, because it will ALWAYS be an "even" fight, no matter what. Then why train for anything else but one hull?

Serpentis bonus is situational. And like most fights, the advantage lies with the agressor. If they spotted the vindi + gang and set up for it, the vindi will possibly be of little use. If the agressor was vindi + gang, i'm sure they'll make sure to have a warp-in at 0 or in brawling range for it.

So, why all of a sudden all this OP screaming. the vindi is a blinky megathron not worth a damn **** without its damage application thru webs and without its "crowd control" factor in close ranges.

my 2c.

--NaK

Quoted for truth
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#893 - 2013-12-13 02:08:51 UTC
NaK'Lin wrote:
I read half of the thread, then I fell asleep at the curse vs BS discussion derail.

Just food for thought though:

I don't see a problem with serpentis & webbing bonus. As some others pointed out, I don't want to fly different textures worth of the same ship. And most certainly not Drake: Online, to put it into hyperbole.

I sadly am old and I've been playing games for far too long. But I believe balance is not necessarily achieved by making everything vanilla. I enjoy unique features. And the Serpentis features are, besides being unique also very powerful. But they are only so under a specific set of circumstances.
Let's face it, if it were THAT much OP, everybody would be flying a vindicator or at least a Vigilant. People aren't.

I wouldn't go up against a vigilant or a Vindicator in a brawling match. Most certainly not. But isn't a game based on Rock, Papers, Scissors nicer? ANYTHING that is range fit will destroy Serpentis ships and also make their webs moot, because... range.

I don't thinkwe want a game where when you see a ship, you can undock in ANY ship, no matter what, because it will ALWAYS be an "even" fight, no matter what. Then why train for anything else but one hull?

Serpentis bonus is situational. And like most fights, the advantage lies with the agressor. If they spotted the vindi + gang and set up for it, the vindi will possibly be of little use. If the agressor was vindi + gang, i'm sure they'll make sure to have a warp-in at 0 or in brawling range for it.

So, why all of a sudden all this OP screaming. the vindi is a blinky megathron not worth a damn **** without its damage application thru webs and without its "crowd control" factor in close ranges.

my 2c.

--NaK


Excellent post.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#894 - 2013-12-16 18:18:00 UTC
Been thinking about this for along time now. There will be many people upset with the change but will adapt unlike those who cried over Walk in Station.

I like to propose this idea. Maybe it will keep many happy and many crying all at the same time along with the possibility of more tears in the future. As we all know technology changes for good or ill. Seeing that the Vindicator and Daredevil are on the chopping block of nerfing. End the Ships make were they are no longer dropped or produced from BPOs. Put in a new replacement for them that would take that place since something has happened. Eve is after all a dark place. This would give CCP a chance to introduce a couple of new ships leaving what vindicators and daredevils out space. Expect large numbers of ganking to happen to dwindle their numbers and drive the price up even further and the tears will flow that someone lost their vindicator due to gank and are out billions of isk. Mmmm….TASTY!!!!

Just an idea after is this not the place for them?

Merry chirstmas
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#895 - 2013-12-16 18:20:37 UTC
NaK'Lin wrote:
I read half of the thread, then I fell asleep at the curse vs BS discussion derail.

Just food for thought though:

I don't see a problem with serpentis & webbing bonus. As some others pointed out, I don't want to fly different textures worth of the same ship. And most certainly not Drake: Online, to put it into hyperbole.

I sadly am old and I've been playing games for far too long. But I believe balance is not necessarily achieved by making everything vanilla. I enjoy unique features. And the Serpentis features are, besides being unique also very powerful. But they are only so under a specific set of circumstances.
Let's face it, if it were THAT much OP, everybody would be flying a vindicator or at least a Vigilant. People aren't.

I wouldn't go up against a vigilant or a Vindicator in a brawling match. Most certainly not. But isn't a game based on Rock, Papers, Scissors nicer? ANYTHING that is range fit will destroy Serpentis ships and also make their webs moot, because... range.

I don't thinkwe want a game where when you see a ship, you can undock in ANY ship, no matter what, because it will ALWAYS be an "even" fight, no matter what. Then why train for anything else but one hull?

Serpentis bonus is situational. And like most fights, the advantage lies with the agressor. If they spotted the vindi + gang and set up for it, the vindi will possibly be of little use. If the agressor was vindi + gang, i'm sure they'll make sure to have a warp-in at 0 or in brawling range for it.

So, why all of a sudden all this OP screaming. the vindi is a blinky megathron not worth a damn **** without its damage application thru webs and without its "crowd control" factor in close ranges.

my 2c.

--NaK


This is very true...
Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
#896 - 2013-12-16 19:10:07 UTC
Maybe CCP should make a new ECM drone type that drops snakes at the enemy. The more snakes on a spaceship the greater the chance a random module is disabled. Then they should remove the web bonus and give Serpentis ships a Snake Drone Efficiency bonus instead. It makes perfect sense, since Serpentis = snakes.
Also, whenever a Serpentis ship is docked the CQ gets snakes all around on the floor for dramatic effect.
Evanga
DoctorOzz
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#897 - 2013-12-28 13:20:47 UTC
Dear CCP,

Why don't you first fix your broken code before changing anything else. You keep insulting your community with this piece of **** software...im curious where you guys are with regards to Sonar results.

Kind regards,
Evanga
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#898 - 2013-12-28 18:14:15 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
First, subtracting a percentage from a number is hilarious.

Second, I think you should check what modules get stacking penalties. Maybe eve uni has a class for you.

Edit: Here, I found their page. Maybe you should consider joining them for a while. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Stacking_penalties

The modules that have stacking penalties does have that written in their description. The webbers doesn't.

And it doesn't matter how many webbers you have fitted, for each webber you fit, it will show -60% speed on each normal webber you have fitted. If they had been stacking penaltied, you would see lower and lower % for each web the more webs you would fit.

Are you seriously, actually this ignorant for real, or is this some kind of elaborate joke? Because if you are going to get into the actual math of calculating the effects of multiple webs and claim that they don't have a stacking penalty, without even testing it to make sure (much less knowing in the first place, which you bloody well should), you're outright despicable and nobody should have to listen to you.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature