These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] New certifcates review

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Luscius Uta
#281 - 2013-12-03 14:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Luscius Uta
Silvion wrote:


Little Dragon Khamez, Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing gives a 3000 meter bonus per level to drone control range. That's why it's included. Navigation skills are part of the Core, and mastery is aimed at getting you to the ships maximum potential. That includes a lot of things that aren't per se mining related (Shields, Armor, Navigation, Cap, etc) but ARE useful across a wide variety of ships, including mining barges and exhumers.

Bear in mind that mastery isn't a "have to have," it's a recommendation.



Because having 57 km drone control range on a ship that has targeting range below 30 km is totally freaking useful...even more than putting a passive kinetic or explosive hardener on a Heron.
Mastery system won't ever be perfect of course, but not having Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing (which is not even properly named skill) trained to IV as the only thing that prevents me from having level III mastery on a ship that can't even lock up to 57 km's is utterly stupid.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#282 - 2013-12-03 16:01:00 UTC
On the subject of drones, I was looking through Caldari ships last night, and noticed many of them have scout drone cert at mastery 1. Caldari ships do use drones, yes, so being able to use them well does require the ability to use drones at a decent capacity, but with low bandwidth and small bays, drones aren't terribly important to the ships, yet according to the mastery even a basic ability to manage the ship requires drones. That's somewhat out of whack.

Drone certs on caldari ships really shouldn't appear till mastery 4 or 5 when you're actually starting to get serious about being dangerous in a ship.


Also, again, requiring ALL of the certifications in a certain mastery level to be the same level as that mastery level is an artifical limitation. Allowing, for instance, Caracal Mastery III to require scout drones I for instance would be good to have.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#283 - 2013-12-04 07:46:05 UTC
dunno if anyone alredy said this but:

noctis mastery needs mining drones which makes no sense
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#284 - 2013-12-04 15:34:35 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
dunno if anyone alredy said this but:

noctis mastery needs mining drones which makes no sense


mmm... salvaging drones should be separate from industrial drones ...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#285 - 2013-12-08 13:25:34 UTC
Are we going to have corp/alliance created certificates?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#286 - 2013-12-09 21:26:46 UTC
it seems odd that there aren't any spaceship command certs in the game..
e.g. you can get mastery lv5 in a vagabond with only lv1 in Heavy assault cruiser skill which ofc is the most important skill to master i would think for the vagabond ...

are we going to see any iteration on these anytime soon there are soon very basic mistakes left ships not having drones certs etc..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#287 - 2013-12-11 14:20:52 UTC
Valkrr Dragonsworn wrote:
Stuff


I'm looking at revamping the various Science and Industry certificates as promised - this stuff helps, thanks.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#288 - 2013-12-11 17:26:21 UTC
One thing I don't quite understand (and maybe someone can explain it to me) is why there are ships that need Advanced Target Management IV for their Mastery IV. That gives you 11 max targets in a ship lineup where I can't find any ships able to lock more than 10.

I totally understand having Advanced Target Management V for Mastery V since that level is almost entirely about "look how blinged-out my skills are", but having it beyond III for Masteries I through IV is a tad confusing.

Unless we're considering the use of Signal Amplifiers.
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2013-12-11 19:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mioelnir
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Valkrr Dragonsworn wrote:
Stuff


I'm looking at revamping the various Science and Industry certificates as promised - this stuff helps, thanks.

The four cosmos technology skills are currently listed in the research certificate. Yet there is not a single research task on TQ that requires any of these skills at any skill level.
They are only used on BPCs given out by cosmos agents and those can neither be researched nor invented.

They are, however, required to build those BPCs - but are not listed at any level in the Manufacturing certificate.


Outpost construction skill: any outpost related item that can be manufactured by players can be manufactured with skill level 1 - or in the case of the outpost station components, don't actually require the outpost construction skill at all....
The higher skill levels are required to launch/anchor the upgrade eggs - which are prebuilt NPC goods that can not be manufactured.

Anchoring: not really sure if there even is any prod job that requires this. Think it came in as a dependency of outpost construction.

Battleship Construction V: required at Mastery 5. Not required on any published blueprint.

Industrial Construction III: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for t2 industrial construction)

Capital Ship Construction V: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for capital production)

Drug Manufacturing V: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for booster production)

Gas Cloud Harvesting II: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for T2 Harvesters)

Racial Encryption Skills IV: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for some Cosmos BPCs)

Ore Processing Skills IV: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for Compressed Ore production)

Datacore Science Skills, IV: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for t2 module and adv. component / adv. capital component production)

Rigging Skills IV: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for rig production)

Jury Rigging V: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for subsystem production)

Subsystem Technology Skills I: for some reason not part of the Manufacturing certificate (required for subsystem production)

This should btw all be in your design and product documentation.
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#290 - 2013-12-11 22:58:57 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
One thing I don't quite understand (and maybe someone can explain it to me) is why there are ships that need Advanced Target Management IV for their Mastery IV. That gives you 11 max targets in a ship lineup where I can't find any ships able to lock more than 10.

I totally understand having Advanced Target Management V for Mastery V since that level is almost entirely about "look how blinged-out my skills are", but having it beyond III for Masteries I through IV is a tad confusing.

Unless we're considering the use of Signal Amplifiers.


There are many ships that support 10 targets, and with modules, 12, or even 13. So, you answered your own question.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#291 - 2013-12-11 23:10:22 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Valkrr Dragonsworn wrote:
Stuff


I'm looking at revamping the various Science and Industry certificates as promised - this stuff helps, thanks.



Thanks for commenting CCP Ytterbium and for listening to our feedback. The more I use the certificates the more useful they seem to me, I can certainly see them as being useful to a corp recruiter of a fleet commander, though some results seem a bit odd though as highlighted previously but that's just polishing what is ultimately a very complex system. Many of the L5 masteries need to be fine tuned in my opinion as they simply list every recommended skill as being needed at l5.

Also I notice that I can also claim masteries for some ships that I do not have the prerequisite skills to fly. Being a khanid character I fly Amarr and Caldari frigs and cruisers mostly, yet according to the certificates I have a wide range of level 1 and 2 masteries for Gallente and Minmater ships that I cannot fly and have no wish to develop my expertise into. Can we have a simple flag that reduces the masteries to 0(none) if you do not have the requisite skill to unlock the ship etc.

Also from an immersion point of view can we have the word 'qualify' used instead of 'unlock' as I've previously mentioned. Thanks very much for continuing to monitor this thread and listen to the player base.

Respect 07


Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2013-12-15 12:19:11 UTC
Another issue current certificates have, example: Research certificate.

At level 2, it adds the racial encryption methods skills at 1. It also adds Hacking at 2, since that is a prerequisite for the encryption skills.

At level 3, you suddenly need Hacking at 3 and Survey at 3. Why? How is skilling a prerequisite skill beyond the skill level you need to fulfill that requirement beneficial to your research ability? How is the 25% bonus to scan speed of cargo scanners improving you, as a researcher?

Skills that get imported into a certificate solely because they are requisite skills for a skill that actually belongs in the certificate should stay at that level all the way to certificate level 5. Unless at a higher cert level a skill is added that requires that skill at a higher level as prerequisite; you get the idea.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#293 - 2013-12-17 13:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Don't mean to nit-pick, but why do the T3 ships require all 4 warfare specializations when they only boost 3 of them?
Example the Proteus asks for the Siege Warfare Link Cert to V, but it Proteus does not use them.
Also t3 ships could have Data and Relic analyzers added to there list of certs.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#294 - 2013-12-27 17:55:28 UTC
Quote:
Is there a reason shield tanking mastery 5 only requires tactical shield manipulation 4? Seems inconsistent with the other mastery 5 certificates which seem to want level 5 for everything.


Because Tactical Shield Manipulation is a reduction in the effectiveness of your tank for all but capitals. It's a fairly slight effect, particularly between 4 and 5, but the conventional wisdom is that you only train it to 4 if you need the T2 hardeners, and you only train it to 5 if you are flying a cap. It's one of those silly skills that actually makes you worse at what you do as you train it up.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#295 - 2013-12-27 18:08:55 UTC
There does seem to be some confusion about how that skill works as evidenced by this thread

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/924988-0/page/1

Does anyone know for sure as I've trained it to 4 thinking that bleed through damage from my shields would only penetrate to armour at 5% of total shield capacity plus I can use T2 hardeners etc.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#296 - 2013-12-28 20:04:51 UTC
combat drone operation lv5 for mastery lv4 is odd ... 5% damage for scout drones .. seems like a mastery lv5 skill too me... its odd its needed for drone link augmentors .. surely drone range should be tied to the drone range skill which is still confusingly named
electronic warfare drone interfacing .. why wasn't it changed or split into 2 skills?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#297 - 2013-12-28 23:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
i would suggest removing drone certs from all non drone bonused ships as they are non essential to the function of that ship..

a hurricane for instance is only bonused for turrets, so drones are only a support weapon, like say filling its utility high with a HAM launcher or a neut..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#298 - 2014-01-05 21:59:07 UTC
There is absolutely nothing wrong with drone certs for level 5 mastery, the problem is stuff like caldari ships requiring it starting at level 2.

They should also give us a drone support cert much the same way we have navigation support or armor reinforcement certifications. Something that says you can use basic drones, but not the best gear.
Julian DeCroix
Socialist Death Panel
#299 - 2014-01-14 20:12:22 UTC
I miss the old "core" certs. Whenever I don't have something specific I'm training towards, those used to be my go-to source for having *something* useful training while I came up with a new overall plan. Now it seems the certs are *only* useful as training guidance for specific hulls/modules/etc.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#300 - 2014-01-14 23:07:57 UTC
this may have been said before, but one of the good things about the old certs - was that you could get 'elite' fairly quickly in, say, hull tanking, this was done by certificates feeding into others

taking an example

perhaps for armour tanking - you could have a couple of sub-masteries - armour repair modules, armour resist modules, armour buffer modules, armour rigging,
these would not all need 5 levels of mastery,
rigging might go 1,3,5, for example
resist modules, would have 1-5, in the standard order, but maybe introducing phasing at mastery III, whilst, hull upgrades should be at V for mastery 4 (as per the generic armour tanking mastery), whilst the individual armour compensations begin at I at 1 and work to V at 5
buffer would be similar to armour support as it is currently but you forgot honeycombing

also - being horrible on armour tanking - thre is NO benefit to having armour resistance phasing to V after the first 10 cycles, I question its place in a mastery cert


I see no need to feed skill pre-req's into the masteries - picking on repair systems II and jury rigging III hiding in remote armour repair mastery, as they're pre-req's, surely they're uneeded

give us our same old core certs, surely you can make those into mastery certs?

turret, missile and drone support skill certs would be nice too (like the old turret and launcher control)

now for bonus points - fitting cert - every fitting skill included (including shield upgrades etc....)
cap cert - every cap-reducing skill (core cap + things like shield compensation)

It's a lot to process, I'll process it better after some time to ruminate on it.

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.