Science & Industry

There are several rigs that no one is ever going to use. If you want to know which ones those are just start looking at all of the ship fit websites and you will see everything that is used on nearly every fit and rigs that are never mentioned.

I would personally like to see rigs simplified by doing the following;

Continue to have size categories for rigs small, medium, large, (I would add a capital size class)

Make a single master rig for each category. For instance a medium shield rig. This rig can do any of the shield rig options, you simply have to set it to what you want it to do, or if that is to hard to code, create scripts for them like other mods. You can keep the core compenents for salvage, its just simplified.

This will simplify T2 rigs and make them more affordable as T2 BPC's of these master rigs can be found in explorations sites or dropped as loot. This will avoid having the worthless T2 BPC's dropping all of the time, and it will make exploration of mag sites much more desireable as you will be getting T2 BPC's for armor rig, shield rig, etc.

Allow so many of a T1 salvage parts to be used to make a T2 part. This will increase will help hold the value of the T1 and T2 items as they will still be expensive to make.

This may drive the price down of T2 salvage compenents temporarily, however T2 rigs will become more widely used thus driving up demand, thus driving the price back up until there is a balance once demand and supply balance.

Problem solved.

The T2 salvage alchemy should use nanite repair paste, the amount of it used depending on the skill with its use.

This would make common sense, wouldnt need any new skills to be added, and wouldnt require too much new training on a salvage alt. Common sense wise, you are expecting to make INTACT stuff from broken stuff, it would make sense that you need something fit the parts together and effectively turn it into a proper T2 salvage.

infrastructure wise, I would make a salvage reactor array for the POS towers. Utilizing the existing mechanics for reactions at the towers.

fix some of the large armor rigs, so that they dont cost 650m for a rig few people use?

I haven't read the full thread, but I did read a lot of it:

I don't think there's a 'good' way to isolate specific types of salvage. You either end up introducing tons of crystals and scripts or adding a new convoluted system. I would like to see a few other concepts pulled in to rigs to make them more controllable without having them too simple.

- All damaged salvage becomes like drone goo, you can reprocess it into smaller pieces, non of which are unique, but certain types of salvage is better than others.
- These sub-components become the basis of T1 rig manufacture
- New blueprints introduced to combine the sub-components into the T2 salvage components

This system isn't perfect, but it could be used easily in the short term to clear out the bulk of the extra salvage without (hopefully) collapsing the T1 rig market while partially collapsing the T2 rig market.

very interesting topic. Some one at CCP must me scratching their head big time with all these great suggestions

I'll go one more and say that there should be S/M/L/Cap/Scap rigs (5 levels).

But you realize that this are the only viable rigs for an Rorqual and most Orca out there right?

Small Sentry rig instead...just kidding but remember: Just you don't see a value in something doesn't mean there isn't any. Even a T2 Sentry rig can be used on one frig, the only question is: Is there any reason to deploy one sentry drone instead of 5 small T2.

But let get this right:
Many points are true. Lot of rigs are out of balance - and as long as all rigs use different salvage this will result in "better" and "worse" modules.

Two suggested versions are my favorite:

First the "Reprocessing Approach": You can refine all salvage materials into lets say 4-8 basic parts. Like with ore and minerals at the moment.

pro:
salvage already in game won't get "Trash"
no "turnover" period - old system get removed and new one kicks in the day the patch arrives

con:
again possible bottlenecks
How to deal with actual T2 Salvage?

Second is the "Alchemy Approach" : T1 Salvage will be converted by some BP's or Reactions into T2 salvage

pro:
No major overhaul of actual system
Salvage can remain as is - an armor plate is still an armor plate

con:
no remove of bottlenecks
some parts will get expensive....let me correct this: freaking high expensive


Maybe some form of Combination is the "holy grail":

First all Salvage stay as is. You refine this into basic components. Then you can use alchemy to create T2 Components from T1 raws. T2 salvage refines into T2 Components off course.
To reduce bottlenecks introduce a way to "build salvage" through blueprints (or reactions???) from basic minerals or transfer X amount of Salvage-Raw one to Y amount of another type (4 in 1 out or so).

K. Dec patch is now on sisi... But T2 rig production is still the same, so is the change, nobody asked for, not comming. That'll be great!!! \o/
Im loosing isk atm, coz my trade orders is on hold, waiting for info about the change... Hope to know more soon!

Hi Fear,

Thanks for the coming buff's to the salvage sites and the sized rig bpc's, they'll both be very popular I'm sure.

In order to come to an equitable balance in the future I think you need to take a much wider view than just salvaging itself.

Guessing here, but I'd say 70% or maybe even 90% of salvage at the moment comes from mission running. Here's the problem, depending on which faction you run for the quality of the salvage goes from crap to epic. Galente get mostly Serpentis missions which overall drop the most useless salvage. Amar on the other hand mission against their main pirate foe's the Bloodraiders more regularly and they drop some of the best salvage in the game, plates and melted cap consoles.

Unless and until the rat drop rates get at least partially equalized ( Serpentis armor tank ships have as much chance to drop plates as Blood ) you're never going to have a solution. The market will be heavily dependent on how many people mission or rat in Amar space for all armor and energy grid rigs, and Minmatar space for cargo and speed rigs. So either equalize the drops or equalize the missions so that someone missioning in Caldari space has as many chances as someone in Amar of getting a Bloodraider mission.

The same should be true of mag sites. The buff's sound nice but if the new Serpentis mag sites just drop the T2 version of the already useless T1 Galente salvage then don't expect much to change. Very few people run the Serp mag sites now because they aren't worth the effort. If all they drop post Crucible is sized T2 drone rigs and hybrid rigs, expect this to go over with a huge yawn and bitter grumbling about how CCP love Amar and Minmatar.

As for alchemy I'm slightly doubtful it can solve the issues as it's being described atm. Invention I think might be a better route to go. Taking less desirable salvage and trying to invent something better would have several advantages. First would be failure. Every failure would help to burn out the huge stockpiles built up. Also this would rationalize the cost I believe, 10 or 20 pieces of junk to get just 1 good intact armor plate is an equitable risk v reward ratio. And people who ran mag sites and found the salvage would still be happy because the value of their finds wouldn't go down to much. The cost of invention combined with the 1 hour wait time would act as a sort of break on over production and be reasonably equitable overall.

An alternate route would be to subdivide the rigs into component parts to be assembled, somewhat like cap ships. Technically cap ship parts get built first, then get assembled into a final product. If rigs were broken down into small subs that needed to be assembled into a final product this could integrate more of the junk into the process.

One last idea might be to actually cut back on the excess variety of salvage dropped now. Instead of having distinct component parts for hybrid, laser, and projectile rigs, it could just he harmonized into Damaged Trigger. Cutting down to a smaller more core group of items would make distribution less of a hassle.

Or your idea of " I think that all rigs/salvage needs to be broken into smaller blocks " in which case a success in salvaging would generate an '' Armor Rod '' + Nanite Compound +Scrap metal = Armor Plate, or alternately Armor Rod +Loretz Fluid +Scrap Metal = Trit Bar. Then you just need to equalize the drops across all the components and you have a market driven solution.

As you mentioned in one of your replies " the building blocks are too racially themed" and I can not begin to agree with this enough. Until there is a much more equitable and realistic distribution across all the factions there will continue to be winners and losers which is just bad for the players and the game.

In my opinion the w space mechanic is the best in the game at the moment. In order to build hulls or subs you have to have a 100% integrated approach between killing sleepers, running radar and mag sites, mining gas and minerals, and invention. While some components are more valuable than others there's no such thing as junk. It all has to come together for the final product. This is where I'd like to see you aim. Salvaging +Mag sites + radar sites + invention all combined to create new products. Combining wrecked, damaged, and intact parts with decryptors and salvage components to be able to invent meta 4 mods would be the end game.

Thanks for all the new stuff and I look forward to future posts from you and your team.

Hey
Increased the drop of T2 salvage components from ship wrecks. --- is that all the change to T2 rig production, or are there comming more?