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Missile pirate ships

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Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#41 - 2013-12-11 12:06:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
Just looks like a Caldari ship. Isn't the point of pirate ship design to combine things you wouldn't otherwise see together? Really, there's nothing particularly Minmatar about your concept. If you replace the explosion velocity bonus with a TP or web range bonus it feels very Caldari/Minmatar all of the sudden.

Lets do a comparison:
Machariel vs Vargur - Mach has better damage output and maneuverability/versatility (shield/armor tank), but Vargur has better application and tank
Cald/Min BS vs Golem - BS will have better damage output (9 effective launchers) and overall versatility (8 mids and 3 rig slots) vs Golem's better application (through painters) and tank.

Pretty much balanced i think. T1/navy/faction ships shouldn't force players to fit specific modules - they are general use ships, leave specializations to T2.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#42 - 2013-12-11 12:42:45 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
Just looks like a Caldari ship. Isn't the point of pirate ship design to combine things you wouldn't otherwise see together? Really, there's nothing particularly Minmatar about your concept. If you replace the explosion velocity bonus with a TP or web range bonus it feels very Caldari/Minmatar all of the sudden.

Lets do a comparison:
Machariel vs Vargur - Mach has better damage output and maneuverability/versatility (shield/armor tank), but Vargur has better application and tank
Cald/Min BS vs Golem - BS will have better damage output (9 effective launchers) and overall versatility (8 mids and 3 rig slots) vs Golem's better application (through painters) and tank.

Pretty much balanced i think. T1/navy/faction ships shouldn't force players to fit specific modules - they are general use ships, leave specializations to T2.


Both the Vindicator and Bhaalgorn have module-specific bonuses. Meanwhile the Rattlesnake combines drones and missiles and the Nightmare combines shield tanking and lasers. Only the Machariel follows the design approach that you are proposing, and just as your concept feels like a purely Caldari ship the Machariel feels like a purely Minmatar ship. Personally I think that design approach is boring.
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#43 - 2013-12-11 12:47:13 UTC
Stan Durden wrote:
Just throwing it out there that maybe a missile boat with target painter bonus seems like a good mix. Then if you made the ship capable of armor tanking decently then you may add some variety to the game. Other than the sacrilege I can't think of an armor tanking missile boat (maybe typhoon?).

Another idea would be to give bonuses specifically for rapid launchers.


The Typhoon and Typhoon Fleet Issue say hello.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#44 - 2013-12-11 13:09:55 UTC
Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea.
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#45 - 2013-12-11 13:11:48 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea.


Is this a joke?
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#46 - 2013-12-11 13:29:41 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea.

Are you scared? Show me where those meany missiles touched you.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2013-12-11 13:55:00 UTC
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#48 - 2013-12-11 13:55:54 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea.


You must play in some alternate Eve universe...

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#49 - 2013-12-11 14:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.

You just added another drone pirate line of ships. Why not use this as an opportunity and rebalance Guristas vessels into proper missile ones (as they should be)?

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#50 - 2013-12-11 14:11:54 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.

You just added another drone pirate line of ships. Why not use this as an opportunity and rebalance Guristas vessels into proper missile ones (as they should be)?


Well, we already have a decent enough line of faction shield-missile ships and we don't really need another. It's probably a safe prediction that any future pirate missile faction will be armour tanked, but armour isn't really a Guristas thing.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#51 - 2013-12-11 14:13:06 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.

You just added another drone pirate line of ships. Why not use this as an opportunity and rebalance Guristas vessels into proper missile ones (as they should be)?


We plan to rebalance pirate ships before too long, but I wouldn't count on Guristas moving too far away from their current flavour. I expect that a pure missile pirate faction would take the form of a new faction rather than the conversion of an existing one.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#52 - 2013-12-11 14:14:19 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.


i would think a fast shield tanked missile ship

so pirates are next then in jan then? new pirate bc's/dessies perhaps?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#53 - 2013-12-11 14:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.

You just added another drone pirate line of ships. Why not use this as an opportunity and rebalance Guristas vessels into proper missile ones (as they should be)?


We plan to rebalance pirate ships before too long, but I wouldn't count on Guristas moving too far away from their current flavour. I expect that a pure missile pirate faction would take the form of a new faction rather than the conversion of an existing one.


is the gurista line going to get a more vexor like approach? 50/50 damage drones/missiles?

so say gila 75/200 drones.... 3/4 launchers with 5% damage bonus and remove missile velocity?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#54 - 2013-12-11 14:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Janeway84
Yo Fozzie!

Why not just add a tier 2 battleship to all existing pirate factions? Smile
Sounds cheap i know but it gives you guys some room to be creative i think while not over complicating the task perhaps.

I always thought it been strange that all other factions have so many classes of ships but pirate factions only have frigates, cruiser and battleships, imo could add battlecruisers and destroyers and capital ships to the mix to spice things up Pirate

Nullseccers comlaining lack of new content in null fix could be to add new bpc's for pirate faction capital ships and new battleship class bpc drops.

Can have pirate bc's bpc's drop in low and dessy's in highsec.

Would be cool if pirate ships where released with split weapon bonus like maybe 5% drone dps and 5% any missile dps
then add bonus to tank or navigation speed or dmg applications.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2013-12-11 14:16:32 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.


i would think a fast shield tanked missile ship

so pirates are next then in jan then? new pirate bc's/dessies perhaps?


Not in January, but pirate ships are getting up towards the top of our backlog.

Also I expect we'd do a rebalance of current pirate ships before adding any more new ones at this point.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#56 - 2013-12-11 14:19:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.


i would think a fast shield tanked missile ship

so pirates are next then in jan then? new pirate bc's/dessies perhaps?


Not in January, but pirate ships are getting up towards the top of our backlog.

Also I expect we'd do a rebalance of current pirate ships before adding any more new ones at this point.


ah so the recons/ T2 cruisers/frigs are next?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#57 - 2013-12-11 14:24:38 UTC
I'd vote for a second amarr/caldari pirate faction, similar to how minmatar and gallente have two pirate factions to choose from .

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#58 - 2013-12-11 15:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Meditril
FT Diomedes wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea.


You must play in some alternate Eve universe...


Maybe... I am usually playing with frigates in low-sec and faction warefare. In this playing field missiles are absolutely OP with regards to kiting. You can't reliably speed tank them (talking about small missiles), you can't reliably sig tank them, you can't tracking disrupt them, you can't neutralize them with cap warefare. Even ECM doesn't work if the enemy is using FOF missiles. The only thing you can do is using Defender Missiles which don't really work since a) you need spare missiles slots and b) you have to spam the button all the time to keep them running.
zbaaca
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#59 - 2013-12-11 17:11:06 UTC
2 CCP Fozzie
can we assume buffs to heavies and torps ?

Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn ♡♡♡

Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2013-12-11 17:16:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.


i would think a fast shield tanked missile ship

so pirates are next then in jan then? new pirate bc's/dessies perhaps?


Not in January, but pirate ships are getting up towards the top of our backlog.

Also I expect we'd do a rebalance of current pirate ships before adding any more new ones at this point.


Retune defender (and FoF) missiles in some comprehendable way. For example, highly increase the RoF and let it shoot missile 'bursts of 2-4 missiles', activate the turrets on a hostile target missile boat, then the active turrets would spam missiles more often than the like turrets of the enemy and target outgoing missiles on that ship using the targetted module. Also, make defender missiles work against bombs (if they don't already).

Then you could give a FoF and defender missile bonus to Mordu's legion faction ships making them valuable nullsec bomber/ECM screening support ships.

Also, why didn't you make rapid missile launchers shoot defender missiles. This could potentially let their platform be better anti-missile launchers...?