Player Features and Ideas Discussion

dont worry, the amarr line is being rebalanced to fill the missile ship lines youll lose with caldari, because fixing the glaring issues with lasers is "too hard"

Is it terrible that I really hope this nickname catches on?

could have been avoided not putting that timer in. What happens when you burn a full clip and target not dead? Question apparently not asked in meetings.

I guess Veto was so crap hot they the never reloaded in mid-battle once. Veto being a corp ccp pulled quite a few peeps from. So it not like ccp doesn't hire pvp'ers with some degree of skill.

The solution is not to make the Phoenix a gunboat, it is that capital missiles (and perhaps missiles in general) are in need of being reworked.

The problem is how to do that without turning them OP. And to this day nobody has found the optimal solution, yet. Perhaps the whole missile mechanics should be reworked. I'm creating a topic just for throwing in another idea, but I don't know if it wold work well.

People keep saying stuff like this about missiles in general and my response is always the same. Don't make massive changes all at once. When they nerfed heavy missiles for instance they nerfed damage 10%, explosion radius 12%, and range ~20%. When you nerf something that brutally it can quickly go from overpowered to underpowered. So yeah, if you buff citadel missiles in the same way you could quite possibly get an overpowered weapon. But really, you do not need to make such massive changes all at once. Buff explosion velocity and radius a mere 5% if you are concerned about this, and then see what happens. Then buff again if it's not enough, or revert the changes if such a change suddenly makes them overpowered (I can't imagine they would be). This isn't rocket science.

5% is generally a good number to use as it is large enough to generally make an impact yet small enough that the impact is not massive. 1% is simply too small, and requires too many incremental changes to be worth the trouble. That is why 5% increments are so common in balancing throughout the industry.

Sure. But the 5% is used for a reason. Like I said it's because 5% is big enough to have an impact and small enough that that impact isn't massive. Of course with CCP they nerf things in 30% increments so it's neither here nor there.

It certainly would be a start at least.

At this point I'll support any kind of change that gets it out of people's hangars.

Just because EFT says it can be done doesn't mean it's important. The speed-tanking thing obviously doesn't apply to sieged/triaged capitals, and against moving capitals (a relative rarity in the smaller fights where you'd actually use a Phoenix because of missile flight time issues) it's trivially solved by a single web. It's not an issue of any significance at all.

The much better range that you refer to is basically a myth. A dual TE Naglfar outdamages a Phoenix within 35 km on paper. In reality, the greater freedom of damage type selection of the Naglfar and the loss of damage from the Phoenix because of flight time means that the Phoenix's advantage is probably compressed into a 10 km window around 50-60 km, which is basically worthless. The Revelation is terrible, it's almost as obsolete as the Phoenix - bad DPS, bad range, bad damage types.

The Phoenix will never be comparable to turret dreads at damage application thing against subcaps. As Fozzie or maybe Rise alluded to, the nature of missiles means that the boundary between "useless" and "lol OP" is far too fine. Nobody wants unavoidable, 140k volleys smacking down on a ship trying to orbit at 500 m. Since we're not going to get a viable blap Phoenix, (nor do we need one, frankly, given that Moros and Naglfar are already rather effective there) the only role left is that of capital/structure killer. This is even what the description says that it's good at, but it's clearly wrong, as a cursory look at Moros/Naglfar damage and range shows.

However, to be used, it has to be considerably better at hitting capitals than the Moros and Naglfar. You mention nerfing the Moros and I'm very sympathetic to that - the range of capital blasters is far too high, and is a powerful contributor to the uselessness of the Revelation. Since torp damage application against capitals isn't a problem, the only way to achieve this is via raw damage, and changing the kinetic-only bonus to omni.

If you still want more damage against subcaps, well, the magnitude of the damage increase required to make the Phoenix relevant is such that you'll also see a good increase against subcaps.