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Rail Deimos/Proteus Viable?
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Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-11-18 22:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
been running some numbers with the winter changes....rail Proteus looks kinda sweet. all with faction AM, and T2 fit because ive never used the ship:

-at 75k EHP, you can hit at 21+29km with a full rack of 250's at 512dps (670 with drones) with some tracking comps in mids
-at 95k EHP, about 480 dps at 15+24km with a full rack of 200's
-speed about 1500m/s
-some pretty ridiculous numbers with a full rack of neutrons, including being able to do 570dps with null at 6.4+15km.

and Deimos almost kinda sorta looks competitive with a pulse Zealot

-at 35k EHP about 423dps hitting at 15+24, 580 dps with drones
-about 1600m/s
- heavy neutron fit with Null is more comparable to a pulse Zealot using multifrequency at mid range, and definitely competitive at this range but cant do jack at longer ranges.

thoughts?
draconothese
Independant Celestial Enterprises
#2 - 2011-11-18 23:11:01 UTC
im actualy kind of surprised been on sisi today the proteus blasters feel kind of lower on dps for some reason but the large blasters seemed like they got a buff dont get me wrong the medium blasters have good tracking now but was there a change to damage output not sure if it was a implant not getting added or something else
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-11-19 00:31:34 UTC
Blaster Deimos at 598dps without drones is pretty neat. 24k EHP, 5km range and 150m or so ballpark estimate.

What do close range Zealots put out?

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-11-19 18:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
pulse zealots do about 640dps with 3 heat sinks and Conflag (less with multifreq) but only up to 16km.

at this range, it's safe to include a flight of medium drones in the dps calculation because it would only take them a few secs to reach the target.
-heavy neutron Deimos does about 650dps with Null, 587dps with a rack of 200mm's and medium drones (which is not that great)
-now a rail Proteus with a rack of 250mm's mops up the floor with both, doing 690dps with Javelin (up to 30km) and medium drones; heavy neutron Proteus we'll leave out (1k+ paper dps).

the rail Deimos is obviously subpar, and does not have any advantages to the pulse Zealot. but the rail Proteus is really intriguing:
-512dps with faction AM at 21+29km without drones, 300dps with Spike at 74+29km.
-1500m/s
-75k EHP (t2 fit)
-definitely competitive with other T3's and the Zealot in armor HAC gangs.

if giving up hybrid rigs and 40dps, trimarks instead, possible to get
-150k EHP
-476dps without drones

thoughts?
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#5 - 2011-11-19 19:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rod Blaine
Hungry Eyes wrote:
thoughts?



The rail Proteus seems good then. It's a T3 and setup for long range. It does nearly as well at zealot HP range (don't forget tracking as a factor), and better at longer range.

Deimos still sucks. Like everyone keeps telling CCP: it's not gonna be as simple as boosting a few gun stats.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-11-19 19:49:30 UTC
Rod Blaine wrote:
Like everyone keeps telling CCP: it's not gonna be as simple as boosting a few gun stats.


^^ This.
m0cking bird
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-11-19 20:05:54 UTC
Well, he rail Deimos has always been viable since the changes to tracking enhancers or maybe before. I thought it was something silly to do in small gang engagements, but a bro was able to show how viable it is and was. This was about a year ago. So, The rail Deimos can nano very well and is the better of the heavy assault cruisers that use rails, in my opinion.

I'm not sure about the Proteus. I have never engaged a rail Proteus and know of no one who's really good who've used them. Rails are alot more viable than Beam lasers on so many Gallente ships. In fleets more than anything. Something similar to Artillery, without the volley damage. Most Beam laser setups for amarr are only viable on t2 ships and almost no t1 setups. Unlike artillery that can be used by most t1 and t2 Minmatar ships and the same for rail-guns. So, unlike most. I've never seen rail-guns as sub-par to the rest or atleast not that much comparatively.

Artillery is just better, but tachs (large beams) or even better than artillery.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-19 21:00:19 UTC
Don't forget with the friction Extension Processor and a Republic Fleet Warp Disrupter the Proteus has a 45km point.

Kiting Proteus certainly could be interesting.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-11-19 21:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
im actually really excited about the Proteus now, and have started skilling up for one. do you think Dissonic Encoding Platform might be better than Hybrid Propulsion? better tracking instead of drones...0.05 which is sick.



what nano Deimos setup were u thinking of? you only have 3 mids, and if u fiddle with the lows too much, you'll have less than 30k EHP Ugh
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#10 - 2011-11-21 20:14:09 UTC
I already use a rail and AB-fit Deimos for AHAC fleets. It frequently out-damages the Zealots in the fleet, has much better range and pretty much the same ehp. After crucible, it'll be far easier to fit, and will outperform the AHAC Zealot in both mobility and dps.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-11-21 20:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
pulse Zealots? unlikely....

even after the patch, the Deimos will be inferior to the pulse Zealot by a decent margin.
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#12 - 2011-11-21 21:10:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rod Blaine
How 'bout a replacement for that ninja ishtar of yours Hungry Eyes?

[Proteus, ninjawinter]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Capacitor Battery II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Prototype Cloaking Device I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Hybrid Ambit Extension I

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Dissonic Encoding Platform
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


Hobgoblin II x5

DPS should be ~700 ((incl drones) at ~5km (void), down to ~530 dps at ~10-15km (null).

Tanks ~700 against guristas (not stable, but who cares with that damage)
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-11-21 22:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
looks pretty sweet Blink might be useful for some 8/10's that the Ishtar cant do.

but cant fit a probe launcher, and is constrained by ammo and range. i was actually thinking of taking a rail Proteus into some wormholes, because the Ishtar cant do em What?
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#14 - 2011-11-21 22:23:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Rod Blaine
Oh, i pair my ninja up with a cloaky alt, hence the missing probe launcher.. pity indeed.
To me the proteus still dont look good for WH's, since the one thing it hates must be neuts.
And the range bit shouldn't be too bad considering the MWD speed.


edit: if you mean sites instead of WH's.. then what kinda rail setup would do well considering the same requirement for a probe launcher?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-11-22 02:02:58 UTC
Rail prot is very viable since it fits without changing any other mods, meaning prots are useful on POS bashes now cos you can refit to rails :)

There is no Bob.

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