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T2 BPO purchase. Just for the rarity factor or actual profit?

Author
Rainbow Dash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-12-05 20:39:52 UTC
Grandma Squirel wrote:
joyous the wrote:
Rainbow Dash wrote:


Sure, for items like AT ships and such a bubble burst is inevitable


I remember being laughed at for trying to sell my guardian vexor for 20b.


AT ships get destroyed both in transport, and in combat. T2 BPOs only get destroyed in transport. Its also easier for AT ship owners to, at considerable risk, flaunt their wealth by going out and killing things. Finally, when fielding 3x AT ships might make the difference in winning another 50x AT ships, your going to be willing to pay a great deal of isk for them. All together, it means I wouldn't count on an AT ship price collapse.


Unless they decide to re-issue them someday, because CCP is, well, CCP. Also, as more cool AT ships come out, the earlier ones, which for the most part are garbage (looking at you mimir/freki) will probably fall in price, because why have a useless paperweight when you could have a theoretically useful paperweight.
Slave A00073078
Northern Raven Reconnaissance Syndicate
#22 - 2013-12-08 15:29:50 UTC
Rainbow Dash wrote:
Grandma Squirel wrote:
joyous the wrote:
Rainbow Dash wrote:


Sure, for items like AT ships and such a bubble burst is inevitable


I remember being laughed at for trying to sell my guardian vexor for 20b.


AT ships get destroyed both in transport, and in combat. T2 BPOs only get destroyed in transport. Its also easier for AT ship owners to, at considerable risk, flaunt their wealth by going out and killing things. Finally, when fielding 3x AT ships might make the difference in winning another 50x AT ships, your going to be willing to pay a great deal of isk for them. All together, it means I wouldn't count on an AT ship price collapse.


Unless they decide to re-issue them someday, because CCP is, well, CCP. Also, as more cool AT ships come out, the earlier ones, which for the most part are garbage (looking at you mimir/freki) will probably fall in price, because why have a useless paperweight when you could have a theoretically useful paperweight.


AT ships would be plenty useful. But the people who win them typically don't engage in the small gang warfare where they would shine. Also I don't know of anybody who would use the damn things in normal combat.

**** if I had one I'd ride it into to battle till 50 bil blew up and left my pod in it's place.
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-12-08 17:12:30 UTC
Slave A00073078 wrote:

AT ships would be plenty useful. But the people who win them typically don't engage in the small gang warfare where they would shine. Also I don't know of anybody who would use the damn things in normal combat.

**** if I had one I'd ride it into to battle till 50 bil blew up and left my pod in it's place.

Some of them do get used in PvP.
http://themittani.com/news/first-chremoas-destroyed-prize-ship-down
https://zkillboard.com/ship/33397/

http://themittani.com/news/first-moracha-destroyed
https://zkillboard.com/ship/33395/
Slave A00073078
Northern Raven Reconnaissance Syndicate
#24 - 2013-12-08 18:17:08 UTC


Would've expected more out of it then being killed by a Dramiel I guess. Also would've figure autos with barrage on the moracha, but hey, what do I know.
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#25 - 2013-12-08 21:04:33 UTC
Rainbow Dash wrote:
Grandma Squirel wrote:
joyous the wrote:
Rainbow Dash wrote:


Sure, for items like AT ships and such a bubble burst is inevitable


I remember being laughed at for trying to sell my guardian vexor for 20b.


AT ships get destroyed both in transport, and in combat. T2 BPOs only get destroyed in transport. Its also easier for AT ship owners to, at considerable risk, flaunt their wealth by going out and killing things. Finally, when fielding 3x AT ships might make the difference in winning another 50x AT ships, your going to be willing to pay a great deal of isk for them. All together, it means I wouldn't count on an AT ship price collapse.


Unless they decide to re-issue them someday, because CCP is, well, CCP. Also, as more cool AT ships come out, the earlier ones, which for the most part are garbage (looking at you mimir/freki) will probably fall in price, because why have a useless paperweight when you could have a theoretically useful paperweight.


Because why have one, when you can have two, or all? That's why they're called collectors items.
Samroski
Middle-Earth
#26 - 2013-12-09 12:19:38 UTC
Rainbow Dash wrote:

Unless they decide to re-issue them someday, because CCP is, well, CCP. Also, as more cool AT ships come out, the earlier ones, which for the most part are garbage (looking at you mimir/freki) will probably fall in price, because why have a useless paperweight when you could have a theoretically useful paperweight.

T2 BPOs will never be re-issued, despite CCP being what they are. At the same time they are extremely unlikely to be nerfed.

One of the great things about Eve is that a new player can compete in most things with older players reasonably well. Except where it comes to buying T2 BPOs!

For this reason alone, I'm against T2 BPOs, though I love them as well for some strange reason.

Any colour you like.

Zoe Zen
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-12-10 00:48:06 UTC
Hey have vaguely read through all the comments, but one thing that struck me is are you guys calculating this with only one character working the BPO? I have 5 characters that could run inventions in my pos very efficiently. So lets say i get a BPO of Neutron Blaster Cannon II or whatever they are called which would with max ME/PE levels and 0 copy cost generate an estimate of 500k/hour in profit per slot. If I then have the isk and run it 24/7 with 50 slots it means that I would make the BPO cost back within 30 days. Am I missing something or?

500,000x50 = 25 000 000 / hr
25 000 000 x 24 = 600 000 000/day
600 000 000x30 = 18 000 000 000/month

Expenses would be the cost of the POS and thats it, meaning a 350ish mill a month.

I haven't looked this through much but this is just what popped in my head while reading the comments.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#28 - 2013-12-10 01:32:13 UTC
Zoe Zen wrote:
Hey have vaguely read through all the comments, but one thing that struck me is are you guys calculating this with only one character working the BPO? I have 5 characters that could run inventions in my pos very efficiently. So lets say i get a BPO of Neutron Blaster Cannon II or whatever they are called which would with max ME/PE levels and 0 copy cost generate an estimate of 500k/hour in profit per slot. If I then have the isk and run it 24/7 with 50 slots it means that I would make the BPO cost back within 30 days. Am I missing something or?

500,000x50 = 25 000 000 / hr
25 000 000 x 24 = 600 000 000/day
600 000 000x30 = 18 000 000 000/month

Expenses would be the cost of the POS and thats it, meaning a 350ish mill a month.

I haven't looked this through much but this is just what popped in my head while reading the comments.

Copying the BPO is less efficient than producing from the BPO. In other words, it takes longer to make a run of copy than it does to simply produce from the BPO itself.
Zoe Zen
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-12-10 03:20:56 UTC
aight, still seems to be profitable, I can get 50 copies with 300 runs each within 14 days? those 300 runs will last me 4 weeks+ to manufacture = I can keep a steady chain of production while at the same time have 49 slots open for the research of other bpo's. This is of course all theoretical as I would not want to manufacture 300x50 guns every month as I would flood the market and never sell them off.

I am not saying anyone is wrong or right, just trying to find new possibilities to make space money!
Rainbow Dash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-12-11 02:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rainbow Dash
Zoe Zen wrote:
aight, still seems to be profitable, I can get 50 copies with 300 runs each within 14 days? those 300 runs will last me 4 weeks+ to manufacture = I can keep a steady chain of production while at the same time have 49 slots open for the research of other bpo's. This is of course all theoretical as I would not want to manufacture 300x50 guns every month as I would flood the market and never sell them off.

I am not saying anyone is wrong or right, just trying to find new possibilities to make space money!


Well, you can only make one 100-run BPC off that BPO every 24 days, not 50 300-run BPCs every two weeks. Not sure where you got your numbers.
Zoe Zen
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-12-11 23:05:35 UTC
ah okey then it makes sense that it takes time to make a net profit out of it. I said on the BPO site that it took 6hrs/copy i think, dont remember exactly. But anyway any money you make on it is a profit right ? and then you can always sell it off.
X ATM092
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-12-11 23:34:23 UTC
Zoe Zen wrote:
ah okey then it makes sense that it takes time to make a net profit out of it. I said on the BPO site that it took 6hrs/copy i think, dont remember exactly. But anyway any money you make on it is a profit right ? and then you can always sell it off.

You're bad at economic thinking and should look up opportunity cost. Not all profit is profit.
Zoe Zen
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-12-11 23:42:56 UTC
X wrote:

You're bad at economic thinking and should look up opportunity cost. Not all profit is profit.


Well that is why I am asking questions, to improve and get better, so please do not just tell me that I am **** without explaining the reason. As I said before I have not done any real calculations on this, this is just thoughts going through my head while on the bus.

But the profit on this is bad compared to the investment, but getting a couple of extra millions while you wait to sell the t2 bpo for higher is not a bad profit is it now?

As someone said it is like buying/selling a house or property, you rent it out to minimise the cost of the upkeep and then you hopefully sell it for more then you bought it.
Ricard Chastot
Snake Eye Production
#34 - 2013-12-11 23:53:45 UTC
Zoe Zen wrote:
But the profit on this is bad compared to the investment, but getting a couple of extra millions while you wait to sell the t2 bpo for higher is not a bad profit is it now?

As someone said it is like buying/selling a house or property, you rent it out to minimise the cost of the upkeep and then you hopefully sell it for more then you bought it.


It can be dangerous to just assume that some class of assets will never go down in price, which is what you're doing here. Get enough people thinking like that and it's basically how you make an economic bubble. Housing is a good example. Most of the time it works as you say, but if you buy at the wrong time you can take a huge loss in principal.

There's nothing wrong with taking the risks of course if you know about them! You really need to at least consider that the BP may not necessarily be worth the same or more than you bought it for. Maybe you'll still estimate it's a good deal and worth the risk, but don't just assume that the risk isn't there.

Hello ladies (and dudes pretending to be ladies)! Say hello to New Eden's 2nd hottest Intaki! It's me. You can say hello to me. Hi.

Zoe Zen
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-12-12 00:18:00 UTC
Ricard Chastot wrote:
Zoe Zen wrote:
But the profit on this is bad compared to the investment, but getting a couple of extra millions while you wait to sell the t2 bpo for higher is not a bad profit is it now?

As someone said it is like buying/selling a house or property, you rent it out to minimise the cost of the upkeep and then you hopefully sell it for more then you bought it.


It can be dangerous to just assume that some class of assets will never go down in price, which is what you're doing here. Get enough people thinking like that and it's basically how you make an economic bubble. Housing is a good example. Most of the time it works as you say, but if you buy at the wrong time you can take a huge loss in principal.

There's nothing wrong with taking the risks of course if you know about them! You really need to at least consider that the BP may not necessarily be worth the same or more than you bought it for. Maybe you'll still estimate it's a good deal and worth the risk, but don't just assume that the risk isn't there.


Of course, I was writing in a risk free manner before. And I would never invest in a T2 BPO as you can't produce an infinite amount of copies with it. Thanks for your insight Ricard.
Rainbow Dash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-12-14 15:55:04 UTC
The 6 hours per copy means you can make a 1-run BPC every ~6 hours, or 100 runs in 24 days (the max runs on a BPC for this BPO is 100)
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#37 - 2014-01-14 16:38:14 UTC
Let me dig this topic a little to help me understand something.

In sell orders forum there is an auction for Co-Processor II BPO starting at 36B ISK.
The price of this item has fallen recently, although daily volume is quite nice.
With current price, according to Fuzzwork this BPO can provide almost 600k ISK/h in a POS manufacturing slot. That is 5.26B ISK per year assuming 24/7 production.

It still doesn't explain to me why anyone would freeze (let's say it can be resold) 36B ISK.
Ok, in comparison to invention it is very convenient to produce from BPO...
So, help me understand what am I missing here.
RAW23
#38 - 2014-01-15 10:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: RAW23
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:
Let me dig this topic a little to help me understand something.

In sell orders forum there is an auction for Co-Processor II BPO starting at 36B ISK.
The price of this item has fallen recently, although daily volume is quite nice.
With current price, according to Fuzzwork this BPO can provide almost 600k ISK/h in a POS manufacturing slot. That is 5.26B ISK per year assuming 24/7 production.

It still doesn't explain to me why anyone would freeze (let's say it can be resold) 36B ISK.
Ok, in comparison to invention it is very convenient to produce from BPO...
So, help me understand what am I missing here.


The answer can probably be found by looking at what the price of that print was a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, etc. Back in 2010 people were goggling at the fact that there were buyers for T2 BPOs when it took three years to make a 100% profit. Since then the prices have gone up a huge amount. With the print you identify, let's say it takes 7 years to make a 100% profit, or 14% profit a year. That's a little over 1% a month, which may seem terrible to most people but which is only a little under the baseline amount that isk can be lent out at to the most trusted figures. Eve has an aging player-base with increasingly large numbers of rich vets who want to put their isk somewhere and earn something. With a T2 BPO not only do you get a very low effort safe return (safer than lending the money out!) but you also get the chance that the price of the print itself will rise further as the trend of greater numbers of aging rich vets who want a safe harbour for their isk continues.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.

SixKiller
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-02-03 23:35:11 UTC
After playing the first 5 years after release, I was then inactive for 5 + years. I had two Tech II BPO stuffed into my hanger. I sold one (enegrized thermic membrane) to have operating cash, and held the other (small shield extender II). I can not manufacture them fast enough, even so to make the profit above what I can sell them for would take several years. The pragmatic decision would be to sell it. I can not bring myself to sell it and I believe that is a combination of rarity/collectibility, and maybe vanity/bragging rights. While money matters, it is not everything.
Mr LaboratoryRat
Confederation of DuckTape Lovers
#40 - 2014-02-04 20:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr LaboratoryRat
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

I am not in any way claiming that the T2 BPOs will all crash any time soon, it's possible for a bubble to be sustained for a long time, but purchasing a T2 BPO under the expectation of continued capital gains is not a zero risk proposition. And purchasing one for the passive income is a very foolish decision indeed; Grendell's bonds pay quite a lot better.

So bonds are actualy better investments than T2 b'po's > loooool

Samroski wrote:

One of the great things about Eve is that a new player can compete in most things with older players reasonably well. Except where it comes to buying T2 BPOs!

For this reason alone, I'm against T2 BPOs, though I love them as well for some strange reason.

Everyone has a chance to own a T2 bpo, even the jelous people. You can easly buy them of ingame contracts. Most T2 bpo's have been sold since the introduction. I doubt the percentage of original owners is above 30%. They were cheaper years ago, but see it as a loyalty program for older players... they have payed years more for alooot lesss game..... (less free patches)

RAW23 wrote:

The answer can probably be found by looking at what the price of that print was a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, etc. Back in 2010 people were goggling at the fact that there were buyers for T2 BPOs when it took three years to make a 100% profit. Since then the prices have gone up a huge amount. With the print you identify, let's say it takes 7 years to make a 100% profit, or 14% profit a year. That's a little over 1% a month, which may seem terrible to most people but which is only a little under the baseline amount that isk can be lent out at to the most trusted figures. Eve has an aging player-base with increasingly large numbers of rich vets who want to put their isk somewhere and earn something. With a T2 BPO not only do you get a very low effort safe return (safer than lending the money out!) but you also get the chance that the price of the print itself will rise further as the trend of greater numbers of aging rich vets who want a safe harbour for their isk continues.

Please stop posting about stuff that you dont know anything about. There have been a few developments that caused that price spike and the current fuss about the amount (2 collections) that are getting (re)sold. I have all the answeres but unfortualy (and cause you trolled me a few years ago) there is no such thing as free information.
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