These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Are the days of Local really numbered?

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#201 - 2013-12-08 19:51:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Right... kinda like now...
Or do you have some magic way of seeing the local list before you actually arrive?


Scouting a system consists of more than just jumping in and staring at a chat window. See this is the problem with Local. Thank you for illustrating it.

Lucas Kell wrote:
Sigh... of course, but you are not talking about basic intel are you? You are talking about actively scouting. That's considerably more work. Like to scout a system with 2 gates, you need a watcher on each gate for gate flashes, plus someone to scout any wormholes into the system, and constant d-scan for people logging on and covert cynos.


Sounds like an end to the "nullsec is empty" whineposts.

Lucas Kell wrote:
I'm not whining. I'm simply stating that your knee-jerk reaction that null should get NO intel at all is stupid and biased.


Biased in what way?

Lucas Kell wrote:
Honestly though mate, I can;t be bothered to keep back and forthing with a troll. I've said why your idea is stupid, others can read that and judge themselves. I'm done with you.


Oh so you have no counterpoint, meight? Blink

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#202 - 2013-12-08 19:53:26 UTC
Troll in local, or trolling about local

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#203 - 2013-12-08 22:07:58 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Batelle wrote:
instant local and isntant dscan will be replaced by an delayed local chat and an auto-updating d-scan that places results on your sensor overlay. It will be awesome.


I would rather have this: A DScan that automatically updates (and the ability to select "quick ranges" that you preset), and a Local that you have to "query" in Empire space (like scanning - there would be possibly a low-tier skill to reduce query time) in order to get a list of pilots in system. When chatting, you appear in Local - but only for a minute or two.

NullSec? Remove it. You want intel - then scout.


That would require about 60 scouts for PBLRD to have similar intel coverage to what it does now for Vale alone.

Some systems have 20 or 30 friendly jumps per play session, do you really think people should be forced off grid everytime one of those occur to go see who it is ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#204 - 2013-12-08 22:14:26 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Batelle wrote:
instant local and isntant dscan will be replaced by an delayed local chat and an auto-updating d-scan that places results on your sensor overlay. It will be awesome.


I would rather have this: A DScan that automatically updates (and the ability to select "quick ranges" that you preset), and a Local that you have to "query" in Empire space (like scanning - there would be possibly a low-tier skill to reduce query time) in order to get a list of pilots in system. When chatting, you appear in Local - but only for a minute or two.

NullSec? Remove it. You want intel - then scout.


That would require about 60 scouts for PBLRD to have similar intel coverage to what it does now for Vale alone.

Some systems have 20 or 30 friendly jumps per play session, do you really think people should be forced off grid everytime one of those occur to go see who it is ?

maye you should try renting from progodlegend i hear their rental space is very quiet

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#205 - 2013-12-08 22:43:46 UTC
Remove local?
Sure, but fix D-Scan please. (Having to hit the same button every few seconds again and again is totally broken.)

Sadly this will never happen. The nullbears have way too much influence on CCP.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2013-12-08 22:45:36 UTC
Cyber SGB wrote:
Sounds awesome, me wants to play it now. What is it, my precious?

IL-2 Sturmovik. Very good game/sim. Has nothing to do with EVE though.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#207 - 2013-12-08 22:49:59 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

You can use dscan. If you cloak, however, they can't. They have no way of knowing you're there, and you have all the time in the world to investigate the system and see if anybody's there. Of course, the reality of it is there won't be anyone there, or anywhere else for that matter.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#208 - 2013-12-08 22:52:51 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

You can use dscan. If you cloak, however, they can't. They have no way of knowing you're there, and you have all the time in the world to investigate the system and see if anybody's there. Of course, the reality of it is there won't be anyone there, or anywhere else for that matter.

in highsec maybe

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2013-12-08 23:02:15 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

You can use dscan. If you cloak, however, they can't. They have no way of knowing you're there, and you have all the time in the world to investigate the system and see if anybody's there. Of course, the reality of it is there won't be anyone there, or anywhere else for that matter.

in highsec maybe

Yeah, I meant in nullsec. Of course they'll be in highsec. Or they'll be docked up, or they'll also be doing PVP things. Point being, there won't be anyone ratting. The only PVE will be the kind you can do in cloaky nullified T3s (e.g. ghost, relic, data sites).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#210 - 2013-12-08 23:02:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

You can use dscan. If you cloak, however, they can't. They have no way of knowing you're there, and you have all the time in the world to investigate the system and see if anybody's there. Of course, the reality of it is there won't be anyone there, or anywhere else for that matter.


Sounds like a normal day in highsec to me.
Cazador 64
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#211 - 2013-12-08 23:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cazador 64
Alice Ituin wrote:

The nullbears have way too much influence on CCP.


Yup we have CCP by the balls. Our wish is their command .
In Fact fanfest in nothing but a guise; in fact its a meeting between null members and CCP to discuss what they can and can not do to the game.

They frequently discuss ways to screw over carebears. It's a pretty fun time.
I have no issues with getting rid of local just let us put our own gate guns up; that will shoot based on standing.
Also let us anchor our own gates so people without book marks would have to scan down the gate.
Sounds good to me CCP make it happen.

Edit: Also Local would have to be jammed out some how if you are war deced in Hi sec only way to make this fair.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#212 - 2013-12-08 23:07:40 UTC
Alice Ituin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

You can use dscan. If you cloak, however, they can't. They have no way of knowing you're there, and you have all the time in the world to investigate the system and see if anybody's there. Of course, the reality of it is there won't be anyone there, or anywhere else for that matter.


Sounds like a normal day in highsec to me.

Local may be of diminished usefulness in highsec, but it's also of diminished importance. The only time you need to care about what's in local is if you're at war, which is of course itself exceedingly easy to avoid. And avoiding suicide ganks is as easy as not fitting anything to your ship that would give people reason to gank you.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#213 - 2013-12-09 00:34:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

You can use dscan. If you cloak, however, they can't. They have no way of knowing you're there, and you have all the time in the world to investigate the system and see if anybody's there. Of course, the reality of it is there won't be anyone there, or anywhere else for that matter.


I think the point is that having to use d-scan or probes would mean you'd have to work at it more than you do now. Now you jump in system and before you even load grid you know who is in that system. Remove local and you wouldn't (or more accurately stop having it list all pilots in system automatically). You'd have to warp around and d-scan or drop probes. Basically, you'd have to work for the information you are to a large extent handed on silver platter with the current mechanic.

Ganking would be easier in the sense that now when you jump into a system everyone is in warp to a safe before you even load grid....which is one reason we have AFK cloaking.

And if there is any change to local, I fully expect a nerf to cloaks...i.e. becoming susceptible to scan probes or something like that.

And CCP Fozzie did in interview where he quite clearly said local will not be removed until there is something to replace it. So this is alot of sturm und drang about nothing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#214 - 2013-12-09 01:25:29 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
And CCP Fozzie did in interview where he quite clearly said local will not be removed until there is something to replace it. So this is alot of sturm und drang about nothing.

it's about trolling "nullbears"

like the "large nullbear tears" thread, there's no real productive purpose

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#215 - 2013-12-09 01:27:17 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

You can use dscan. If you cloak, however, they can't. They have no way of knowing you're there, and you have all the time in the world to investigate the system and see if anybody's there. Of course, the reality of it is there won't be anyone there, or anywhere else for that matter.


Rat aligned.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#216 - 2013-12-09 01:34:16 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
And CCP Fozzie did in interview where he quite clearly said local will not be removed until there is something to replace it. So this is alot of sturm und drang about nothing.

it's about trolling "nullbears"

like the "large nullbear tears" thread, there's no real productive purpose


General is where we practice tears for F&I where a dev might actually read them. I think I got it all down. unsub threat. claim total depopulation of sec type due to change. crazy other idea to implement instead. Bring on the F&I thread!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#217 - 2013-12-09 03:10:08 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Tell me this James, say you rat in an officer fit Nightmare, where are you safer, Empire running lvl 4's or in Goons home space?

I'm glad you saw fit to illustrate pretty much the ONLY case in which I'm in more danger in empire than in nullsec.


Ok, say you rat in an simple faction fit nightmare, or vindi, or CNR, are you safer in Empire grinding L4's or in Goons home systems?

Empire.

no you will be caught by marmite on jita undock

try again




Never hang out by a highsec station with a Tengu in structure. Everybody knows that.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#218 - 2013-12-09 03:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Xuixien wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

You can use dscan. If you cloak, however, they can't. They have no way of knowing you're there, and you have all the time in the world to investigate the system and see if anybody's there. Of course, the reality of it is there won't be anyone there, or anywhere else for that matter.


Rat aligned.

Yeah, I'm sure that'll help when a bomber will be able to decloak, lock, and point faster than I can react.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2013-12-09 03:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Teckos Pech wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

You can use dscan. If you cloak, however, they can't. They have no way of knowing you're there, and you have all the time in the world to investigate the system and see if anybody's there. Of course, the reality of it is there won't be anyone there, or anywhere else for that matter.


I think the point is that having to use d-scan or probes would mean you'd have to work at it more than you do now. Now you jump in system and before you even load grid you know who is in that system. Remove local and you wouldn't (or more accurately stop having it list all pilots in system automatically). You'd have to warp around and d-scan or drop probes. Basically, you'd have to work for the information you are to a large extent handed on silver platter with the current mechanic.

Ganking would be easier in the sense that now when you jump into a system everyone is in warp to a safe before you even load grid....which is one reason we have AFK cloaking.

And if there is any change to local, I fully expect a nerf to cloaks...i.e. becoming susceptible to scan probes or something like that.

And CCP Fozzie did in interview where he quite clearly said local will not be removed until there is something to replace it. So this is alot of sturm und drang about nothing.

This is such a good post I will never again AFK cloak in EO space.

Also I think the issue is that the information is just to simplistically given. It appears with everything you need to know before a person even loads into system.

Do you need to know all of that info instantly? No I don't think you do.

You could easily get away with knowing how many people are in system and what status they have towards you.

The scanner could be much more effective. Do you need to click it every 5 seconds if someone is not in range. No. So get rid of that. Make scanner automatically show ships in range of d-scan.

Cloaked ships, make scanner show cloaked ships in range, but not what they are, who they are. It could simply show [Unknown Ship].

Nerf to cloaks? Sortof. My corporation is all about cloaking. We generally always have cloaks but that would imo be a positive change.

A more interactive scanning / local system that's not just an old social tool that was utilized by players to be the most important tool in EVE would be beneficial to the game imo.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#220 - 2013-12-09 06:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You could easily get away with knowing how many people are in system and what status they have towards you.

I'd be PERFECTLY happy with just this.

And as far as cloaks go: if there's someone cloaked in system, I need to know at least that. I don't need to know who it is, or standings, etc. I think that if there's any way to avoid showing up in local, it should be on specialized ships that aren't able to fit offensive modules.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)