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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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warning, incoming new ship ideas!

Author
killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-12-09 05:29:07 UTC
now I have been in and out of playing eve for the last several years, and I quickly ran up the ship hulls till I found one I like, battleships. I love them and I have used all of them and there many uses, I am working for a marauder, the Paladin, to be specific. And what's after that.. what? Capitals? But what if I still want to roam around freely, without having someone help.
I think there needs to be a **** ton more ships in all the current hulls and many others as well. Tech 3 frigates, destroyers, battle cruisers and battleships and tech 2 capital ship's and more variety among capitals, thus bringing me to my first suggestion.

Idea 1: drone specific carrier.
Now I get that is what everyone thinks that carriers main goal is used to deploy fighters, well wrong. Their main role is RD remote repair. But how about me? I going to be using my carrier for pve and I will never waste a high slot on RR module.
Now I think there needs to be a drone specific carrier that all races get certain bonuses for "ALL" drones. And will not have the RR bonus that is an utter waste. I have a Nidhoggur for pure sexyness but I will never use the two bonus the ship gets.

Second idea. Something to bridge the gap between sub caps and capital ships, the difference between the two are staggering in cost and skills, there needs to be ships in between that are either larger than battleships and still smaller than a carrier. Warships that are capable of fitting an entire rack of XL guns without a siege mode needed, kinda like the new battle cruisers, but the next size up.
And also a miniature carrier capable of deploying the same amount of drones as a carrier 15 or even more, but not able to deploy fighters.

Third idea. Now this one I'm going to need a little help with.
tech 2 capital ships..

And this one even more such. Tech 4 ships, clearly way way in the future.

And please, don't just say overpowered! Overpowered!!
If you think that, help with feedback to help "balance".
Hra Neuvosto
Party Cat Enterprises
#2 - 2013-12-09 05:35:06 UTC
no
killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-12-09 05:36:35 UTC
Hra Neuvosto wrote:
no

Wow.
And the award goes to....
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2013-12-09 05:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Old ideas. Still saying no.


- We already have drone carriers; Ishtar, Dominix, Armageddon, Dominix Navy Issue, Rattlesnake.

- The gap between sub-cap and capital is not as large as you think it is. Most the player skills you learn in either a Drone/Logistics Ship and Battleship directly translate into Carriers and Dreadnoughts respectively.

- No matter what... the main difference between capitals and sub-capitals, the need for assistance, is going to be a major hurdle. You can introduce all the ships you want "in between" but that gap is still going to exist because very few people want to be reliant on alts or other players... which is actually the entire point behind capitals in the first place; if you want a major "force multiplier" you have to pay for it in multiple ways.
killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-12-09 06:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: killer persian
ShahFluffers wrote:
Old ideas. Still saying no.


- We already have drone carriers; Ishtar, Dominix, Armageddon, Dominix Navy Issue, Rattlesnake.

- The gap between sub-cap and capital is not as large as you think it is. Most the player skills you learn in either a Drone/Logistics Ship and Battleship directly translate into Carriers and Dreadnoughts respectively.

- No matter what... the main difference between capitals and sub-capitals, the need for assistance, is going to be a major hurdle. You can introduce all the ships you want "in between" but that gap is still going to exist because very few people want to be reliant on alts or other players... which is actually the entire point behind capitals in the first place; if you want a major "force multiplier" you have to pay for it in multiple ways.


Ok well then make them better, they are no better than any other ship with any amount of drone capacity. They try to fit the roll into something that wasn't meant to be drone depending in the first place, when I think of battleships, drones are the last on my mind.
Either do a true drone boat or not at all.

And the fact that a battle ship and a carrier is nearly a 10x more isk isn't a small gap? And don't even bring up dreadnoughts.
There needs to be more ships.. point blank. 30+ sub caps and really only 4 capital ships? Like really.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-12-09 06:08:07 UTC
killer persian wrote:
And the fact that a battle ship and a carrier is nearly a 1100x more isk isn't a small gap?

Confirming the OP knows what he's talking about.

I have an Archon I can sell to you for 100b, that's only 500x the price of a battleship!
killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-12-09 06:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: killer persian
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
killer persian wrote:
And the fact that a battle ship and a carrier is nearly a 1100x more isk isn't a small gap?

Confirming the OP knows what he's talking about.

I have an Archon I can sell to you for 100b, that's only 500x the price of a battleship!

I ment 10x obviously.. dip tard.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-12-09 06:12:28 UTC
Alrighty, I'll sell the Archon to you for 10b. The low low price of 50 battleships!
killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-12-09 06:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: killer persian
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Alrighty, I'll sell the Archon to you for 10b. The low low price of 50 battleships!

A battleship ranges from 130 to nearly 200, carriers all range around 1b and Dreadnoughts 2b. That is about 8 to 10 times as much. Your irrelevant comments are distasteful and a waste of bits.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-12-09 06:18:43 UTC
killer persian wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Alrighty, I'll sell the Archon to you for 10b. The low low price of 50 battleships!

A battleship ranges from 130 to nearly 200, carriers a all around 1b and Dreadnoughts 2b. That about 80 to 100 times as much. Your irrelevant comments are distasteful and a waste of bits.

Uhhh. Math. It is hard.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#11 - 2013-12-09 06:22:42 UTC
killer persian wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Alrighty, I'll sell the Archon to you for 10b. The low low price of 50 battleships!

A battleship ranges from 130 to nearly 200, carriers all range around 1b and Dreadnoughts 2b. That is about 80 to 100 times as much. Your irrelevant comments are distasteful and a waste of bits.

Try putting those numbers in a calculator, you're only making yourself seem dim witted.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-12-09 06:24:47 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
killer persian wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Alrighty, I'll sell the Archon to you for 10b. The low low price of 50 battleships!

A battleship ranges from 130 to nearly 200, carriers all range around 1b and Dreadnoughts 2b. That is about 80 to 100 times as much. Your irrelevant comments are distasteful and a waste of bits.

Try putting those numbers in a calculator, you're only making yourself seem dim witted.

10!!!! I ment 10x
Damn phone keyboard.
Whatever.
killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-12-09 06:30:59 UTC
How about we all just take it back to eve beta because apparently no one likes anything new an this game should be the exact same until it FAILS from being static.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#14 - 2013-12-09 06:35:06 UTC
Exactly what niche could a new class between caps and subcaps fill that isn't already filled, the same goes for T2 capitals. Also, how do you come up with statements like "30+ subcaps and really only 4 capital ships?" When for gallente alone there are 6 counting freighters and 43 sub caps not counting industrial ships?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2013-12-09 06:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
killer persian wrote:
[Drone ships] are no better than any other ship with any amount of drone capacity. They try to fit the roll into something that wasn't meant to be drone depending in the first place, when I think of battleships, drones are the last on my mind.
Either do a true drone boat or not at all.

Look at the bonuses.

- With all level 5 skills and 125 m/bit of bandwidth a regular ship's drones act as ~10 drones in terms of damage and ~6.5 drone in terms of health.

- With all level 5 skills, 125 m/bit of bandwidth, and the a 50% bonus to damage and health (on all drone-centric ships) five drones act as ~15+ with the combined health of 7.5+

(NOTE: apologies if my math is off)

With most ships, drones act as fairly significant supplementary damage to its normal weapon systems. Drones ships generally flip that around or, at the very least, even out the disparity between the two.


killer persian wrote:
And the fact that a battle ship and a carrier is nearly a 1100x more isk isn't a small gap? And don't even bring up dreadnoughts.
There needs to be more ships.. point blank. 30+ sub caps and really only 4 capital ships? Like really.

I was talking skill gap (which has been lowered and made far smaller than it ever has been).

But if you want to talk price...

A Tech 1 battlecruiser hull costs ~70 million ISK... a Tech 1 battleship costs ~200+ million.
Taking mods into account... that is respectively 90 to 100 million versus 300 to 350 million... a nearly 300 to 400%+ cost disparity. The gap closes as you go further down the ship classes. This is on purpose. Linear increases in power come at exponentially higher costs.

You PAY for those extra edges and force multipliers.

edit:
killer persian wrote:
How about we all just take it back to eve beta because apparently no one likes anything new an this game should be the exact same until it FAILS from being static.

Do understand that many of us have a very strong dislike for capital ships in general and would like to make them MUCH harder to use and/or get into.

The reason for this is because quite a few of us have seen what large, wealthy, and very organized groups can do with these ships. Making cheaper versions of something that is already frighteningly effective is just asking for trouble (both in PvP and PvE) and will usually result in very stiff resistance (if you though a lot of tears where shed during the Marauder re-balance then wait til the DEVs start working on capital ships... it's going to be EPIC).
killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-12-09 06:45:30 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Exactly what niche could a new class between caps and subcaps fill that isn't already filled, the same goes for T2 capitals. Also, how do you come up with statements like "30+ subcaps and really only 4 capital ships?" When for gallente alone there are 6 counting freighters and 43 sub caps not counting industrial ships?

I don't include freighters or jump freighters to be true "capital" ships bases on their one role. Along with industrial ships.
That is also why I said 30+ dip tard. 43 last time I checked is larger than 30 and that was just a buffer. Your comment even further hardens what I'm saying. If there are 43 sub caps and only 4 "true" capitals that is a 10:1 ratios.. not exact but the point is there..

And as I have said for tech 2 capitals. More drone oriented carriers and about the other 2 I'm not sure..
And what is the damage difference between a battleship and a dreadnought in siege mode? Hugely different. The same goes for the sudor drone boats and the two carriers.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-12-09 06:49:04 UTC
killer persian wrote:


Ok well then make them better, they are no better than any other ship with any amount of drone capacity.

Do you actually play this game? Or do you just sit in a station and dream up terrible ideas? Go look at a killboard, or even, outside of highsec.

Drone ships (ishtar and dominix mainly) are doing VERY well.
killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-12-09 06:50:48 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
killer persian wrote:
[Drone ships] are no better than any other ship with any amount of drone capacity. They try to fit the roll into something that wasn't meant to be drone depending in the first place, when I think of battleships, drones are the last on my mind.
Either do a true drone boat or not at all.

Look at the bonuses.

- With all level 5 skills and 125 m/bit of bandwidth a regular ship's drones act as ~10 drones in terms of damage and ~6.5 drone in terms of health.

- With all level 5 skills, 125 m/bit of bandwidth, and the a 50% bonus to damage and health (on all drone-centric ships) five drones act as ~15+ with the combined health of 7.5+

(NOTE: apologies if my math is off)

With most ships, drones act as fairly significant supplementary damage to its normal weapon systems. Drones ships generally flip that around or, at the very least, even out the disparity between the two.


killer persian wrote:
And the fact that a battle ship and a carrier is nearly a 1100x more isk isn't a small gap? And don't even bring up dreadnoughts.
There needs to be more ships.. point blank. 30+ sub caps and really only 4 capital ships? Like really.

I was talking skill gap (which has been lowered and made far smaller than it ever has been).

But if you want to talk price...

A Tech 1 battlecruiser hull costs ~70 million ISK... a Tech 1 battleship costs ~200+ million.
Taking mods into account... that is respectively 90 to 100 million versus 300 to 350 million... a nearly 300 to 400%+ cost disparity. The gap closes as you go further down the ship classes. This is on purpose. Linear increases in power come at exponentially higher costs.

You PAY for those extra edges and force multipliers.


But what if you had 10 or 15 drones with those same bonuses in any of those ships? That is what you're missing. A carrier has 10 to 15 drones with most skills maxed. SC having 20 to 25.
Your right that having good skills in a drone boat makes them more effective. But then you add more and thus the damage is there.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#19 - 2013-12-09 06:51:48 UTC
killer persian wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Exactly what niche could a new class between caps and subcaps fill that isn't already filled, the same goes for T2 capitals. Also, how do you come up with statements like "30+ subcaps and really only 4 capital ships?" When for gallente alone there are 6 counting freighters and 43 sub caps not counting industrial ships?

I don't include freighters or jump freighters to be true "capital" ships bases on their one role. Along with industrial ships.
That is also why I said 30+ dip tard. 43 last time I checked is larger than 30 and that was just a buffer. Your comment even further hardens what I'm saying. If there are 43 sub caps and only 4 "true" capitals that is a 10:1 ratios.. not exact but the point is there..

And as I have said for tech 2 capitals. More drone oriented carriers and about the other 2 I'm not sure..
And what is the damage difference between a battleship and a dreadnought in siege mode? Hugely different. The same goes for the sudor drone boats and the two carriers.

That's just one race, meaning there are closer 182 subcaps not counting pirate/special edition ships and 16 of what you consider true caps, so you should try thinking about what you post before doing sp. What is the exact need for drone only carriers other than for your convenience? Why does the dps difference matter if there isn't a need for a ship between them?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

killer persian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-12-09 06:53:10 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
killer persian wrote:


Ok well then make them better, they are no better than any other ship with any amount of drone capacity.

Do you actually play this game? Or do you just sit in a station and dream up terrible ideas? Go look at a killboard, or even, outside of highsec.

Drone ships (ishtar and dominix mainly) are doing VERY well.

...
But they can do better.
Or are they at there maximum. Is it all down hill from here?
Or should we be radical with ideas?
Like the tech 3 cruiser.
Should there be more tech 3 ships?
Or is that just fine?
Not to shake your pretty game of risk there bud.
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