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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Question on The Blockade, level 3, Guristas

Author
Tatanka Startamer
Rio Nova
#1 - 2013-12-07 15:34:38 UTC
Hey all, new pilot here, been playing about 5 weeks. I recently got a Caracal, fitted for Heavy Missiles and showing (in EFT) ~120 DPS, and ~19K EHP. I mowed through level 2s with a destroyer with little problem, and moved to level 3s when I got the Caracal. The first few missions were OK, but this one was an order of magnitude harder. In 4 tries, I've taken out 2 ships total, and limped back to the station with a lot of damage each time. The DPS incoming is ridiculous, and it takes too long to take them out.

I found Eve-survival, and from the comments, it looks like everyone does this mission in a BC or BB. I guess I can see why. So I guess what I'm asking is, is there some fundamental thing I'm missing, or is this just too much mission for me right now?

Other comments I've found basically explain that missions, even though they can have the same level, can have quite a big range of difficulty. Are there any other level 3s (besides the Blockade) which should be avoided by a new player? I'd hate to go back to level 2s, which were fairly easy in the Cormorant, and are kind of a joke in the Caracal (unless, of course, I haven't had the luck to run into the hard level 2s! )

Thanks,

Tat
gfldex
#2 - 2013-12-07 15:49:12 UTC
That mission can be finished in a reasonable time with a Caracal -- given the right fitting. If you provide us with your fitting, we could tell you how to improve it.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#3 - 2013-12-07 16:53:15 UTC
IMO Blockade can be one of the hardest missions around, especially if you don´t pay close attention to the triggers.
Even a Battlecruiser might get into trouble then.

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]

Tatanka Startamer
Rio Nova
#4 - 2013-12-07 18:50:49 UTC
Here's my fitting right now:

[Caracal, Caracal - current]
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Ballistic Control System I
Ballistic Control System I

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Large Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Upgraded Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I

Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

Salvage Drone I x2
Hornet I x2


Actually, one of the missile launchers was upgraded to another that I looted, with a slightly faster cycle time XM-3200 or something like that. Also, I have played around a bit with different missiles, I think I'm using Kinetics now. And the Kinetic Deflection Amp was an EM version the first couple of tries. The Kinetic did seem to tank a bit better, but not enough to make a difference (for me at least).

Not sure how to link skills. Just assume most of the relevant ones are at 3, that's where most of them are at.

Tat
gfldex
#5 - 2013-12-07 19:59:01 UTC
[Caracal, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

You may need an implant (that got a name i cant remember right now) to help with fitting the shield extenders. Having T2 ballistic control might require maxed fittings skills, go named and you should be fine. Be careful when your shield gets low and make sure there is no junk in front of you to stop you from warping.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#6 - 2013-12-07 20:26:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Tatanka Startamer wrote:
Here's my fitting right now:

[Caracal, Caracal - current]
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Ballistic Control System I
Ballistic Control System I

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Large Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Upgraded Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I

Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

Salvage Drone I x2
Hornet I x2


If the incoming damage is mostly from missiles, increase your speed and reduce your signature while increasing your resistances. Work on your shield skills - Tactical Shield Manipulation IV will allow you to use T2 hardeners. Use hardeners instead of amplifiers.

So that's the general advice. The specific advice is:

  • Swap the Large Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I (large shield extender) for another hardener (extenders will increase your signature, which increases the damage taken from missiles),
  • switch the invulnerability field for a third damage-specific hardener, and make sure the three hardeners are tailored to the damage types you will be receiving. NPCs generally deal two damage types. Guristas deal Kin/Therm for example, so you will use 2 x Kinetic Deflection Field II and 1 x Thermal Dissipation Field II
  • Also consider swapping out the shield rigs (which increase your signature radius) for an Ancillary Current Router or two, which should let you replace the Power Diagnostic System with something more useful like a third ballistic control while simultaneously reducing your signature radius (an imperative when tanking missile damage). Use rigs as required to support the rest of your fit. If you have sufficient CPU and PG, swap to Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I rigs, to improve your HML damage against frigates, destroyers and cruisers.
  • Train your shield tanking skills first, then work on missile skills to improve your DPS (warhead upgrades, rapid launch, guided missile precision, heavy missiles, heavy missile specialisation).


So with all the mumbo jumbo out of the way, here's a suggested fitting:

Caracal, Speed/Sig Tank - Current Skills wrote:

Local Hull Conversion Overdrive Injector I
Local Hull Conversion Overdrive Injector I
Ballistic Control System I
Ballistic Control System I

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I

Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Salvage Drone I x2
Hornet I x2


The above advice is focussed on producing a Caracal that is speed & signature tanked against incoming missiles, while maximising output damage.

If the incoming damage is mostly from turrets, your best option is to increase the engagement range. To do this, switch from the 10MN afterburner to a 10MN MWD, switching rigs and lows as required to gain the PG you need. Something like this might work (if you have sufficient PG, switch a reactor control for a ballistic control, if you are cap stable switch a SMC for a Medium Hydraulic Bay Thruster to give your missiles more range):

Caracal, Range Control - Current Skills wrote:

Beta Reactor Control: Reaction Control I
Beta Reactor Control: Reaction Control I
Ballistic Control System I
Ballistic Control System I

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile
Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Salvage Drone I x2
Hornet I x2


As a general rule, don't mix buffer with active tank. In this case you have an extra mid slot that you could use for a hardener taken up with a shield extender. Simply removing that extender and putting a third hardener in there will dramatically increase your survivability.

Level 3 missions are geared towards battlecruisers, but you'll find that regardless of the ship you fly The Blockade against Guristas is going to be a painful experience due to missile spam.

Please let me know how you go, here or through in game mail.
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-12-07 21:30:17 UTC
120 dps is rather low for level 3 missions.
You need ~80 kinetic dps to break the tank of the elite cruisers in the Blockade lvl 3, and as heavy missiles have a bad explosive velocity, you will not deal full damage against them - if you have no skill level in Guided Missile Precision and Target Navigation Prediction, you might even find it impossible to kill those cruisers. But even with those skills it'll take a long time to kill them.

Now, the Blockade is one of, if not the most difficult lvl 3. But with only 120dps, you will have a problem with any mission that has an elite cruiser in it, even if it is otherwise easy. There's a reason why most players use BCs - not only do they tank better, they also deal more damage, which helps breaking those tanks and complete missions much faster.

Tatanka Startamer wrote:
Also, I have played around a bit with different missiles, I think I'm using Kinetics now. And the Kinetic Deflection Amp was an EM version the first couple of tries. The Kinetic did seem to tank a bit better, but not enough to make a difference (for me at least).
This is right.
And in order to run lvl 3 missions successfully, you will have to learn about the damage type you have to tank and the one you have to deal. There are plenty of resources out there that will help you learn about it. You will also need to learn about trigger ships, as that might be the difference between facing 15 ships and facing 40.

Then, in your fit, the tank is pretty bad.
In PvE, you are usually in a fight for a long time, so an ancillary booster is usually bad, as you run out of charges before the fight is over and then you have to reload while taking damage, with no shield booster.

And second, as Mara said, don't mix buffer, passive and active tank, choose one.
For a buffer tank, you want shield extenders and extender rigs - but usually you don't want a buffer tank in PvE.
For a passive tank, you want shield extenders, purger rigs and shield power relays
For an active tank, you want a shield booster, shield booster amplifiers, capacitor control rigs and, if you have place, cap rechargers and maybe capacitor flux coils.

Oh, and never use Hornet drones - due to the weird balance of drone damage, it's Warriors against Angels and Hobgoblins against everyone else.
Tatanka Startamer
Rio Nova
#8 - 2013-12-08 23:03:26 UTC
Thanks for the tips. I learned a lot, but most of all, I can't do this mission in this ship (>I< can't, I'm sure some of you could).

The T2 fit would be a few weeks a way for me, since I don't have hardly any of the level 4 skills I'd need. The others didn't look much better than what I have now, at least in EFT. And the kicker? I learned how to solve the issue of being dropped in the middle of the ships (drop a bookmark before arriving, then warp out and back to the bookmark). However, they could hit me while I was still out of range (61km), so I had no prayer of ever taking them out.

Oh well, get a better ship, and try again later!

Tat

PS - the drone info was interesting, since basing it on the drone damage type is not useful, I guess.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#9 - 2013-12-09 02:21:16 UTC
Would a Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I rig be of any use to you? It extends your range by about 15%, at the expense of more CPU.

Another option is to get into a Drake pronto. The extra tank of the Drake along with more launchers should solve your Guristas Blockade issue :)
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-12-09 03:37:44 UTC
Tatanka Startamer wrote:
PS - the drone info was interesting, since basing it on the drone damage type is not useful, I guess.
The thing is that different drones do not only have a different damage type, but they also deal different amount of damage. Hobgoblins deal the most damage and because Thermal is the second lowest resist for most NPCs (except Angels), Hobs usually come out on top.

Although I revalidated it and rescind my previous statement. As Hornet drones have the second highest dps, they will indeed do slightly more damage than Hobgoblins against Gurista. The difference is small though and as Hobgoblins have more uses, most players don't bother carrying Hornets. OTOH, Acolyte drones (EM damage) are indeed useless, as the difference in base damage is too big (Hobgoblins deal ~40% more base damage than Acolytes).
Tatanka Startamer
Rio Nova
#11 - 2013-12-09 04:11:49 UTC
Thanks for the further responses, Thomas and Mara. The additional details about the drones, and the rig for increasing range are quite helpful.

The mission is over for now (expired today), and I am moving back to level 2s for now, til I can either move up to a BC or get some level 4 skills to fit T2s. I also know to pay more attention to the missions I accept, instead of just taking everything, like level 1s and 2s.

Thanks,

Tat
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#12 - 2013-12-09 11:59:52 UTC
The lvl 3 blockade mission is the hardest mission i have faced. Including out of the dozen or so lvl 4s i have done. I almost lost my cyclone the second time round, with only 3% hull left when i warped out. I had already lost a stabber on first try. Mind you that was a long time ago.

You already have some great fitting advice. I would add to jumping into a drake as well. Its just got a really impressive passive tank which is perfect for missions. I think even when i first flew one with poor passive tank skills (all t1), i was getting 180DPS of passive tank before resists. Now its quite a bit higher.

But the thing that made the biggest difference is aggro management. Learn what the triggers are and avoid them. What seems like an impossible mission can be quite easy with proper aggro management.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Jewel teyla
Decree of Insane Drunken Coat
#13 - 2013-12-09 15:31:57 UTC
If you get stuck again hit me up (when im not at war) im sure i could help you out with the dps factor unless you mission in a stupid location :P

IE miles from where one of my mission fit pingus are.
Tatanka Startamer
Rio Nova
#14 - 2013-12-10 02:06:59 UTC
Thanks for the two additional replies. I have now looked at the Drake, and it is a really nice ship. I think I'll get a few more skills under my belt, and pick one up in a week or so. And the cost isn't too bad either.

And Pingu is a ship I haven't heard of. Learn something new everyday in this game!

Tat
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#15 - 2013-12-10 04:39:39 UTC
I will probably facepalm later … what is a pingu?