Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Range bonuses make sense on projectile weapons that, somehow, travel at the speed of ******* light. Not on missiles.

They make sense as long as the ship slots support it and there is a place for it in game. That said double range bonuses only result in a higher percentage of comedy. (I'm talking rail guns too here, caldari progression).

The Drake argument earlier btw, with the changes to warp speed it is almost like the Drake could become more obsolete. What would that be -4 grades obsolete??

Sounds good, but if you plan on soloing in web range would you not be better to just go with a brawling turret ship, or a drone boat instead? When battlecruisers are used in fleets and gangs for things like camping gates and stations the high alpha and instant dps of turrets is more useful than HAM volleys regardless of tank/dps, and I imagine it's a similar situation in fleet engagements, where turret and drone tactics would be superior to missiles.

Either way as I see it buffing the damage application for HAM's is not going to break the game, because fleets already have all the tools available to get near perfect dps out of Heavy missiles; if they are not being used in blobs now that won't change much with a damage application buff. Even In a fleet of 20 it's easy to bring hyena's, or a few ppl fit target painters so everyone gets to apply near full dps on the primary.

Something needs to be done because HML and HAM don't work well for solo or small gang in cruisers like the Caracal, it can't live with other cruisers in web range, it's vulnerable against active tank frigs or small frig gangs, and against other cruisers it only does between 25-40% of it's dps in most situations... against other cruisers, that's crazy ffs. Against a MWD stabber at full speed about 25% of dps is applied, even against a webbed AB cruiser doing 300m/s it wont apply more than 30% of it's dps, so unless you manage to web, scram, and paint a mwd fit cruiser you can only expect to use a fraction of your dps. In about 95% of situations you'll find yourself at disadvantage. A damage application buff to explosion velocity rather than a dps buff will make them usable on the Caracal in place of RLML, and without spawning massive Drake fleet's everywhere. I like Arthurs suggestion of a low slot tracking enhancer style module so I can choose to swap potential dps for better applied dps like turret users can, this would make HAM Caracal viable in solo/small gang pvp without having any real impact on large fleets.

Heavy missiles are a horrible mess, but HAM's are not far off, fix the damage application on them so that their dps doesn't rapidly fall off a cliff after the target starts moving more than 200m/s, then they become useful. Is there any logical explanation as to why I have to choose between a weapon system that's incapable of killing anything bigger than a frig, or a weapon system that can't apply it's dps to almost any moving target that's smaller than a battlecruiser? Do you think that's right, and if not what can be done to correct it?

No your right, I've been training gunnery and drone skills, and I plan to buy a Min/Gall pvp character to use as my main if I ever get enough ISK, but it leaves a bitter taste because I wanted to play as Caldari and fly our ships, but not at the expense of having a poor line up to chose from. I'm not giving up on missiles altogether, it was hinted earlier in the thread they might look at Heavy missiles again. Missile ships will always be easy to use in pve missions, and in frigs we have the Hawk and Condor which are good for pvp. It just annoys me that Caldari are already the weakest race, we get the short end of the stick and still manage to be the target of more nerfs, is ccp run by some role playing manchild with a vendetta or wth is going on?

p.s. we don't even get bonuses on the best pirate ships, people need to complain or nothing will ever get fixed, and we are paying customers so we have a right to complain if we're not happy.

To answer your question, we've discussed the problems with RLML, RHML, regular missiles, and missile based ships. None of it seems to matter because 40sec and Fizzle have been ignoring us for over 2 weeks, and the CSM popped in to tell us to deal with it about 50 pages ago.
Frankly, I would like to declare open war on the Devs in-game, but I doubt they really log in.

I think we need another Burn Jita. Just with missiles this time. Cruise missile-equipped battleships @ 250km range would make for an interesting display.

You are so full of ****. You know that right?

Has anyone done more testing with the new launchers?
I should say been using as testing implies you are using something other than a final product and at this stage I don't see things changing in regard to RLML & RHML.

Back to my questions.

Has anyone had any success with these launchers, in either fleet or solo situations?

Is there a legitimate use for these weapons that makes them a better or equal choice with something else?

RLML was the go to weapon system for Caracal and Cerberus pilots, but after the changes it's no longer viable in most circumstances, it leaves a vacuum that needs to be filled by either HAM's or HML's and neither are fit for purpose as things stand, that's why we are discussing them and the general state of the Caldari line up in an RLML thread.

The solution to any perceived problems with the rapid light launchers is to first address damage application with heavy and heavy assault missiles. The heavy missile nerf is what primarily drove people to light missiles, and to a lesser degree - heavy assault missiles. The range and damage application for light missiles is far superior to heavy assault missiles, such that even with less DPS the higher ammunition capacity and ability to apply damage is often superior with light missiles. This is because it's a medium-strength weapon that utilizes and typically receives bonuses to light ammunition.

And herein lies an interesting question: Why is it that CCP continues to pigeonhole us into specific weapon types for each class of ship? Why not simply have certain bonuses that are applicable to any light, medium or heavy weapon? Case in-point: why shouldn't a Navy Raven receive a missile velocity and explosion radius to all missile types? Because it would make it more powerful against cruisers or frigates, right? And what's necessarily wrong with that? After all, it's going to make it comparably weaker against another battleship, so it's not like the decision doesn't entail some risk.