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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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About high sec PvP containers traps/baits
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Shay Seven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-07 18:04:11 UTC
Hello fellow capsuleers.

So i'm new here, very new actually and considering my early life options i'm thinking about missioning+salvaging.
Having read quite a few about EVE I already know that no place is 100% safe. And need to clear a couple things.

1. Is it correct that a pirate/ninja can drop an item of his in a container that belongs to you and when you loot it he gets kill rights and can attack you? (Without Concord popping him)
2. Does this also apply if its a ship wreck that you killed? (rat , mission npc etc)
3. How do the above cases work when using a mobile tractor unit? When it draws the wreck does it auto loot his item too?
4. Do you get a popup when looting something he has put in your containers?
5. If you have combat drones launched will they auto-engage him if he [a]. salvages your wreck [b]. picks up your loot/cargo (therefore giving him kill rights since you attacked 1st)

That's all my newbie questions for now. Apologies for the length and in case they have been posted someplace I missed.
I know my ships will start exploding eventually but I would prefer to know where I f**ked up if this happens in cases like these.

Thanks and fly safe. o/
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-12-07 18:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
No. The can belongs to you. What he can do is launch his own can, take your stuff from your can, and put it in HIS can. If you try to take it back, THEN you will be flagged.

It's pretty hard to accidentally make yourself pewpew-open since they put in the safety. Just leave it on green and you will probably be fine.

Drones will not aggress someone merely because they are suspect.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-12-07 20:32:53 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
It's pretty hard to accidentally make yourself pewpew-open since they put in the safety. Just leave it on green and you will probably be fine.
Well, even with the safety on green, you can still attack someone who is suspect flagged, which allows them to shoot back.
But yes, if you leave the safety on green, stay in high-sec, in an NPC corp, don't accept duel invites and never shoot other players, CONCORD will avenge you.

I also want to clarify the vocabulary:
"Kill right" is a specific term in EVE for a right that is granted to you when someone commits a criminal act against you. I wont get into the specifics, but it allows you to kill that person once and it only expires after one month. You can even sell this right.

If you attack a person, he gets a "limited engagement", which allows him to shoot back for 5 minutes. This allows him to kill you, but is not called a "kill right".

If you steal things, you get "suspect flagged" for 15 minutes, which allows everyone to shoot and kill you. It's usually referred to as "getting flagged". Having your safety on green will disallow any action that would give you a suspect flag.

And of course, everyone can shoot you all the time, it's just that CONCORD will show up to kill them. But CONCORD does not show up instantly (especially in 0.5 space), so they might have the time to kill you first. It's called a "suicide gank" and usually only happens if you fly something with valuable modules and/or cargo and little tank.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-12-07 23:17:51 UTC
Shay Seven wrote:
Hello fellow capsuleers.

So i'm new here, very new actually and considering my early life options i'm thinking about missioning+salvaging.
Having read quite a few about EVE I already know that no place is 100% safe. And need to clear a couple things.

1. Is it correct that a pirate/ninja can drop an item of his in a container that belongs to you and when you loot it he gets kill rights and can attack you? (Without Concord popping him)
2. Does this also apply if its a ship wreck that you killed? (rat , mission npc etc)
3. How do the above cases work when using a mobile tractor unit? When it draws the wreck does it auto loot his item too?
4. Do you get a popup when looting something he has put in your containers?
5. If you have combat drones launched will they auto-engage him if he [a]. salvages your wreck [b]. picks up your loot/cargo (therefore giving him kill rights since you attacked 1st)

That's all my newbie questions for now. Apologies for the length and in case they have been posted someplace I missed.
I know my ships will start exploding eventually but I would prefer to know where I f**ked up if this happens in cases like these.

Thanks and fly safe. o/


1. No. The moment he drops the item in YOUR container, it belongs to YOU. The container and it's content is owned by you.
2. See above.
3. Yes. But as above, it doesn't matter.
4. No.
5a. No. Salvaging is free game for everybody. You own any possible loot in a wreck, but the salvage parts are not owned.
5b. No. In no circumstance will drones ever pull you into PvP. They will react if you shoot the ninja looter or other way around if they are set to aggressive and are already in space when the initial first shot is fired.

Also keep in mind: Even though you can loot anything, anybody else puts in your container. People can put items in there that are illegal to carry around and might trick you that way into paying a heavy fine / get aggro from the NPC custom officers.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#5 - 2013-12-08 07:07:56 UTC
Be aware that your drones WILL retaliate automatically when you are illegally attacked in highsec if you have them set to aggressive. This can have some consequences; in particular it makes it legal for your attacker to attack your pod. (They'll still lose their ship to CONCORD but they won't suffer the severe security status hit from illegal pod aggression).

This is much more important in isolated lowsec systems (ones surrounded by highsec), where illegally attacking someone's pod will prevent you leaving that system for 15 minutes.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2013-12-08 14:34:30 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
No. The can belongs to you. What he can do is launch his own can, take your stuff from your can, and put it in HIS can. If you try to take it back, THEN you will be flagged.

It's pretty hard to accidentally make yourself pewpew-open since they put in the safety. Just leave it on green and you will probably be fine.

Drones will not aggress someone merely because they are suspect.



It's a /little/ more complicated.

If he takes from your can, he gets suspect flagged. At which point, any can which he drops becomes fair game, with no flagging. (I'm not entirely sure about cans dropped before he gets flagged)

Safety on green is, indeed, the easiest way to avoid unexpected flaggings.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-12-08 15:44:36 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
No. The can belongs to you. What he can do is launch his own can, take your stuff from your can, and put it in HIS can. If you try to take it back, THEN you will be flagged.

It's pretty hard to accidentally make yourself pewpew-open since they put in the safety. Just leave it on green and you will probably be fine.

Drones will not aggress someone merely because they are suspect.



It's a /little/ more complicated.

If he takes from your can, he gets suspect flagged. At which point, any can which he drops becomes fair game, with no flagging. (I'm not entirely sure about cans dropped before he gets flagged)

Safety on green is, indeed, the easiest way to avoid unexpected flaggings.


Cans and wrecks are easy too;


White = yours or made by your fleet and are open to take.
Blue = abandonned, so anybody in EVE can take from it.

Yellow = owned by someone and requires you to go suspect to take.

Suspect actions require yellow or red safety system settings.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Shay Seven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-12-11 19:16:58 UTC
Well thanks for all the replies :)
I think I got a clear(er) picture with what's going on in high sec now and after going though other posts in the forums.

From what I read the only "grey areas" as far as getting flagged / trapped while missioning / salvaging, as long as you got the safety on and don't go pirate hunting are -

  • having 'auto target back'
  • having drones on aggressive or getting some kind of drone UI bug (?)
  • being careless attacking someone flagged as suspect (from what I understand this can happen with safety on)

    • So
    .. Green Safety On > Check
    .. Drones on Passive > Check
    .. Not attacking anyone 'suspect flagged' > Check
    .. Sitting in a station forever to be safe > Check .. Oh wait.. Big smile
    Milan Nantucket
    Doomheim
    #9 - 2013-12-11 19:23:16 UTC
    Some info is bad:
    "No. The can belongs to you. What he can do is launch his own can, take your stuff from your can, and put it in HIS can. If you try to take it back, THEN you will be flagged."

    Used to be the case... now however if I take from your can and place in my can... my can is fair game and looting it will not flag anyone as long as im flagged.
    Elena Thiesant
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #10 - 2013-12-11 19:40:59 UTC
    Shay Seven wrote:
  • having drones on aggressive or getting some kind of drone UI bug (?)

    • Drones do not attack someone unless they've already attacked you, you can have them on aggressive just fine.
    If you do get suicide ganked and your drones attempt to defend you, just make sure you get your pod out (spam warp as ship is dying) and stay docked until the aggression timer runs out.
    Sabriz Adoudel
    Move along there is nothing here
    #11 - 2013-12-11 20:57:38 UTC
    Elena Thiesant wrote:
    Shay Seven wrote:
  • having drones on aggressive or getting some kind of drone UI bug (?)

    • Drones do not attack someone unless they've already attacked you, you can have them on aggressive just fine.
    If you do get suicide ganked and your drones attempt to defend you, just make sure you get your pod out (spam warp as ship is dying) and stay docked until the aggression timer runs out.



    Yeah this will prevent your pod being legally killed (and short of a ship with a lot of remote sensor boosting on it that can lock pods in under one second, pods being actively piloted are near to invincible in highsec; even a sub-1s lock time only gives you a chance of getting them).

    Be aware that the greatest danger to your pod comes when you are docking, not when you lose your ship. If in a trade hub, don't dock at the main trading station. Dock in a minor station (like Dodixie 9-9), then get a rookie ship to return to the hub 9-20.

    I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
    Thomas Builder
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #12 - 2013-12-11 21:39:02 UTC
    Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
    Elena Thiesant wrote:
    Shay Seven wrote:
  • having drones on aggressive or getting some kind of drone UI bug (?)
    • Drones do not attack someone unless they've already attacked you, you can have them on aggressive just fine.
    If you do get suicide ganked and your drones attempt to defend you, just make sure you get your pod out (spam warp as ship is dying) and stay docked until the aggression timer runs out.

    Yeah this will prevent your pod being legally killed
    As this is the new player forum, I'll clarify this statement:

    Your drones shooting back will not allow anyone to destroy your ship without penalty - e.g. in high-sec, as soon as someone illegally shoots at you, CONCORD will inevitably destroy their ship, even if your drones shoot back after that.

    However, the penalty for destroying your ship and your pod is higher than the penalty for just destroying your ship. E.g. in high-sec, destroying ship+pod will reduce your sec status much more than just destroying a ship - in both cases CONCORD will destroy the attacker's ship. (In low-sec, destroying a ship gives a suspect flag, while destroying a pod gives a criminal flag.) Now, if you or your drones shoot back, it allows the attacker to also destroy your pod without that additional penalty, but he still gets the penalty for attacking your ship.

    Note 1: technically, the additional penalty is dealt as soon as he attacks your pod, even if he doesn't destroy it - but a pod rarely survives being shot at.
    Note 2: If your attacker already has a sec status of -10, he won't care about whether or not he'll get the additional penalty, but some suicide gankers like to keep their sec status over -2.